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Chris_Thomas

  • Posts: 160
Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2006, 05:49:52 pm »
Hi Arthur
It means that Trading Standards couln't prosecute for an ad which indicated the price of a sevice (cleaning etc) which was false or misleading. That may have changed now.
It only applied if you charged for something you haven't done.
Worth checking out.
Sorry for confusion
Chris

Ali_D

  • Posts: 136
Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2006, 05:52:16 pm »
I work in HR at the moment and prior to that motor insurance.  I've dealt with a lot of disgruntled people in the past and find that the nicer you are to them the more they back down.  I think your reply may have been a bit harsh, which put this blokes back up even more.  He probably sees it that he only lives six miles from you and you want to charge him £6 extra.  Most rational people would say ok, thanks and not bother, but unfortunately there are quite a lot of fruit loops out there and its like walking on egg shells.

Ali

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2006, 05:56:26 pm »
Hi Arthur
It means that Trading Standards couln't prosecute for an ad which indicated the price of a sevice (cleaning etc) which was false or misleading. That may have changed now.
It only applied if you charged for something you haven't done.
Worth checking out.
Sorry for confusion
Chris

Chris thank you, I will take a look at it, very interesting...
The thing is I have not sold my service to them, I refused...
Regards,
Arthur

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2006, 06:08:43 pm »
…I think your reply may have been a bit harsh, which put this blokes back up even more.
You have not seen my first draft ;D   

…He probably sees it that he only lives six miles from you and you want to charge him £6 extra…

The area that we market is made of 3500 houses which occupied by “cream of society” of the City of Newcastle upon Tyne.  The benefit of working there is that you do not have to travel a lot from one house to another… 

He lives 6 miles away from that little town and I assume he cannot agree to pay more than those reach people are paying for our cleaning service.  Despite I have never been in his house I can say that he is not reach, because he has a small place (only two hours of cleaning) and difference of £6 per hour hurt him a lot…

But why would he not try another company? I tell you coz no one would go there for than £15-00 per hour

Regards,

Arthur

keith b

  • Posts: 375
Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2006, 06:34:49 pm »
Arthur,

If you unsure about the wording/legal implications of your advertising litriture, it might be worth checking out the "Advertising Standards Authority" website.

http://www.asa.org.uk 

they have a section under the heading of advertising codes, or to be precise "The CAP Code".

As some of the others have said, it might be worth adding the word "from" before showing any prices on future litriture.

Good luck and try not to worry!

keith


Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2006, 06:45:40 pm »
Thank you Keith,
Isn't this forum a GREAT place  ;)
Regards,
Arthur

garyj

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2006, 06:48:48 pm »
Best advice of the day is from Lizzy and it is what I would have done in the first place. Got in touch with my solicitor, FSB or Citizens Advice. Shame she got insulted for it.

Andrew is in the next strongest position, looks like everyone he meets wants to take him to court but no one has yet, so thats OK then, and on top of that he watches Kavanagh QC, that makes him the forum lawyer then.

There are instances of companies being made to honour advertised prices, some have been fined heavily in the past for using practices such as this to gain there market share. We all know that Arthur hasn't done this on purpose, but by the time a solicitor is involved they would make mincemeat of him.

You have to ask is more than a 50% hike in your price to travel 6 miles fair, I have to be honest and say I think that is a rip-off, and that is where you have to be careful. The statement about you working for the 'cream of society' and presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2006, 07:08:06 pm »
... presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.

I should have said  ::) that he/she is just jealous to pay more then others do... I said it now...

garyj

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2006, 07:14:11 pm »
... presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.

I should have said  ::) that he/she is just jealous to pay more then others do... I said it now...


The hole just got deeper  ::).

Don't think he is jealous, mad as hell more like and rightly so.

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2006, 07:25:26 pm »
Gary I think you are missing one point:

I have never advertised where he lives, I have not contacted him/her first, so he/she should have no reason to expect our service there at our typical rate...

Our marketing is very well targeted at a very specific area, this is enables us to state our typical hourly rate.  I can confirm that we do indeed work for £9-00 per hour over there and we have no intention of miss-selling our service.

Regards,

Arthur

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2006, 07:37:09 pm »
Quote
Best advice of the day is from Lizzy ....... Shame she got insulted for it.

I don't think that Arthur meant any offence, he just made a tongue in cheek comment about a slogan on an avatar.

Lizzy was indeed the voice of reason, a valuable thing when the rest of us see the "red mist"

I hope Lizzy thinks again.... I have enjoyed many of her postings.

Quote
Best advice of the day ..... solicitor, FSB or Citizens Advice.


Solicitors cost a fortune, being pragmatic it could be cheaper to pay a £500 fine than pay £2000 to defend the charge

FSB: good advice, not everyone is a member, nor does everybody have access to advice through a Trade Association

Citizens Advice: will not advise businesses

Next best advice is to take advice from those who have been in the same position...... that is the true value of forums such as this.

Quote
everyone he meets wants to take him to court but no one has yet,


In 27 years of business, I must have met thousands of customers. Less than a hundred of these have wanted to take me to court.

2 have done so, I defended myself (but with advice from the legal team at my Trade Association: advice I share in my postings), I won the case on both occasions.

Additionally, one has invoked the conciliation procedure operated by my Trade Association, and after due conciliation the complainant agreed with my view and withdrew the complaint.

So that's 3 in 27 years. Not a bad record, really, considering that those 27 years represent maybe £50 million turnover. Multiply the years by the number of staff within the family businesses and you have 1  in 144 years: so a sole trader could expect to have this occur once in every 3 reincarnations..... better odds than the Lottery, but still unlikely that everyone on this forum has experienced this kind of situation.

I am the proud manager of a family business that celebrates its 40th anniversary this year, proud to have lobbied on behalf of my industry at Parliament, proud to have received an environmental award from David Bellamy.

I am never proud to receice a customer complaint, but if the complaint is unfounded, I will defend it to the bitter end. My local VAT office can attest to that, but that is a totally different matter..... suffice it to say that several thousand pounds' professional fees were a wise investment.

All I offer is the product of my experience.

I have some business experience that I am happy to share, in return for the carpet cleaning experience that other forum members share.

You will notice that I have never given advice on cleaning techniques, carpet shrinkage, dye runs etc. That is because my only experience in carpet cleaning thus far is cleaning carpets in caravans, my office, my car and my wife's day nursery (or getting one of the staff to do so) with a Vax (don't laugh, I know now) and more recently a Puzzi 100 (much better, and when a carpet is only 10 feet square you don't need a steempro)

I am on this forum because I intend to diversify into carpet cleaning, I already have a sideline in mobile car valeting (mainly because my car is very dark blue and needs washing and waxing 3 times a week! I had already got 3 vans, 3 prochem steempro's, 3 windsor passports and 3 puzzi's for the small bits, and then I found this forum and discovered that there is much more to CC than "splash and dab". I am not a cowboy operator and I never will be.

Accordingly, staff recruitment has been put "on ice" for a couple of months while I go on the IICRC course in Nottingham and the ProChem course in Manchester. Whilst I won't be doing the work, will be looking for experienced staff and booking on-going training, I need to know what my staff are talking about.

Come May, I need 3 operators and a sales rep in the North West. Recruitment agencies, here I come.

2 months ago I thought TACT was how a carpet was nailed down, not temperature, agitation, chemical, time, and I thought a "spotter" was a football talent scout. Now I know better, and it is thanks to this forum. I am grateful to all forum members for their input, would never knowingly insult one, and I am distressed to see one take offence. Lizzy, if you are reading this, I tried to email you (as I have emailed Arthur) to try and moderate the situation, but you don't have an email in your profile. I don't either, but there's a link to my website so you can email me there if you want to. I don't like to see a lady upset.

Quote
You have to ask is more than a 50% hike in your price to travel 6 miles fair,


If Arthur was to keep the price the same, and charge travelling time, 6 miles both ways to drop off and collect staff takes up to an hour on small lanes (I am sure that there is no convenient motorway) so that's an hour for Arthur, driving, and an hour for the cleaner, sitting in the car. To charge travelling time would in fact double the hourly rate for 1 cleaner, at 50% Arthur is being very sensible.

Quote
... watches Kavanagh QC, that makes him the forum lawyer then ...

I am indebted to my honourable colleague (as Kavanagh himself might say.... I've got the video's too: John Thaw, an excellent actor and a sad loss.

Quote
companies being made to honour advertised prices, some have been fined heavily


I am sure that the OFT apply the law fairly and would see this as a simple misunderstanding


Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2006, 07:42:17 pm »
Quote
presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.


Arthur never made any such presumption. He gave the client a fair price in view of the travelling involved and the client declined it.

All's fair. No potential problems with OFT, citizens advice, court or anything.

It is the customer's bewildering, irrational but ultimately quite entertaining further actions that are the topic.

Customers like this exist everywhere. Talk to anyone who works in Customer Care.

We should unite in support of Arthur who is the innocent party in this matter and who is no doubt worried enough about the matter to seek our advice and support.

busydaffodil

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2006, 07:46:05 pm »
Gary....Thank you.    I was only trying to help AJ by pointing out that however expert we all are on here,  that ultimately he would be responsible for how he dealt with the problem and any repurcussions.  My advice was to seek legal advice.    
However well intentioned or experienced we are, I know I would want 100% accurate advice and that can only be obtained from the proper authorities.
  
AJ - your link to your leaflet said it was a copy of what was going in the Yellow Pages.  Obviously, everyone in the UK has access to this.    Once again I would recommend obtaining proper advice on your leaflet wording and take legal advice should your problem with this couple continue.   If my advice/opinion offends,  then please ignore it.    But please dont have a dig at me when all I offered was well intentioned advice.

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2006, 07:51:19 pm »
Quote
Best advice of the day ..... solicitor, FSB or Citizens Advice.


Solicitors cost a fortune, being pragmatic it could be cheaper to pay a £500 fine than pay £2000 to defend the charge

FSB: good advice, not everyone is a member, nor does everybody have access to advice through a Trade Association

Citizens Advice: will not advise businesses
I am a member of the BICS and they have a free legal helpline, going to ring them tomorrow  ;)

Next best advice is to take advice from those who have been in the same position...... that is the true value of forums such as this.

Andrew I am 100% agree with you.

Regards,

Arthur

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2006, 07:52:39 pm »
Lizzy, I thought Arthur was just making a tongue in cheek remark relating to the slogan on your avatar, and I am sure that he never meant to give any offence.

We already have a disagreement between a cleaner and a customer, let's not have one between ourselves.

Forgive and forget?

garyj

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2006, 07:56:29 pm »
Andrew,

Part of your advice was an email campaign against this chap. Rubbish advice.

You also missed the most serious point entirely, so again rubbish advice.

A £500 fine against £2000 defending yourself and thinking the fine is better, is again rubbish advice, if you win you claim damages and get your costs reimbursed.

The rest of your post is irrelevent and information that is not needed in this argument, what the hell has David Bellamy got to do with it!!!

I also think Arthur is  big enough and ugly enough to look after himself without you second guessing what is going on in his head.

Am I missing something  ???


John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2006, 08:01:05 pm »
Arthur

Stop worrying, you can work for who the hell you bloody want to at the rate that you decide not them.

Don't worry about all this legal clap trap, legal bods have bigger fish than you to fry.
Typical rate is fine, banks state typical interest rate but its not fixed.
Bye the way £9 an hour for Pontelend is too low, should be 12-15.
I like your bit about the cream of society, couldn't stop laughing ;D ;D ;D

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2006, 08:02:21 pm »
Welcome back Lizzy!

I really did not mean to offend you…


...My advice was to seek legal advice...

…Personally, I would now refrain from contacting them until such time that they do persue.  I would then agree to quote,  attend their house and on inspection remark on how many nice valuable things they have, and say you can do the job for £9 but that the work they ask for would take a minimum of 8 hours a week.  They probably will not employ you but if they do,   I would take great pleasure in then doing the 8 hour day myself, relax in their home, iron like a snail & enjoy wasting their money. They'll soon send you on your way…

Just my opinion…
 

Should your opinion be taken as advice, or advice and opinion are not the same?


…AJ - your link to your leaflet said it was a copy of what was going in the Yellow Pages.

I have never said it, I am afraid… 

My website has not got our price in it, you would not see my leaflet if it was not published on this forum.

…But please dont have a dig at me when all I offered was well intentioned advice.

Lizzy, I am sorry….

Are we friends again?

-----------

Are you going to change your avatar?

Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2006, 08:13:15 pm »
...I like your bit about the cream of society, couldn't stop laughing ;D ;D ;D

John,
Did you not know that Lotto-rapist lives there  ;D ;D ;D

…Bye the way £9 an hour for Pontelend is too low, should be 12-15…

I like this Phil’s post:

Harrogate, North Yorks, this is a rich area but what I have found is if you market your self as professional (expensive) company you will get the good jobs…
…£14.50 per hour is my labour rate but on some jobs it works out a lot more as much as £17 per hour…  … I would like to think my main compitition is Molly maids and Merry maids pick up loads of x customers from these.But i did fill my book of work on lower priced jobs, once you have money coming in then try to get the worth while jobs. good luck Phil

Regards,

Arthur

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: COULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2006, 08:17:24 pm »

Did you not know that Lotto-rapist lives there 

Aye Arthur, and he's in good company.