[Karl Wildey]

Looking at new contract and thinking of using encap machine as a pain to use my TM.
I see Dynamall do one, not sure of price, but can anyone recommend any others?

Could get a low speed scrubber and a spray bottle, but again no sure whats good. I am a wet clean old skool so need some advice from LM experts

[ian harper]

Whats interesting about this post just like the one on windows 8 we live and work in a world where you can no longer pick one system be it

Windows 8 or ios
LM PORTY OR TM

You have got to have them all because if you dong your excluding yourself from part of the market

With the os you need to see your site on all systems. In this case not having LM now means looking at buying it. Btw if job is right size it fan pay for it. And a porty for those job that you cant get near or flats

Nice chrome add on let lets you see your site as if it was being viewed on these other systems can help but you cant beat seeing it on the right screen size.

So all this one better than that is pointless all have benefits to your business

For me it looks like just being able to offer TM is worth the investment even if i dont use it. Having three systems at three prices levels could mean porty wins

Lets face it what system to use is normally the cleaners choice not the customers. But which would they choose if you offered them all. Not choose me because i use this system or that one. But choose me because i offer all of them and that benefits your customers budget.

I doing this at my end of the market upgrading hire to porty. Nothing to say it cant be done upgrading or downgrading to and from TM to Porty

Why would a customer want to downgrade from TM to porty because they buy outcomes and in both cases its a clean carpet

[David Ware]

HI Karl
Bought a Hos Orbit SprayBorg excellent results and looks the part, pricey but sets you apart from floor polishing machines.
David

[Mike Halliday]

Dave.. But who sees it? ....Most of my bonneting is done when no ones there.

I think there is a big market for a retro fit spray attachment than can b fitted to any rotary, even a non electric drip fed fitting than has 3 or 4 outlets at the front of the rotary so as you move forward it drips Encap onto the carpet.

If your rotary has a tank you could fit a bit of solution line onto the bottom tank outlet, then wrap it around the rubber bumper, drill small holes into it, pull the shampoo release lever and hay-presto a chemical delivery system

[David Ware]

HI Mike
Thats the reply my son got when he did a demo quote recently. Got the job.
David

[peter maybury]

Although I do not have an orbot it is something that I would like to invest in at some stage. It is not only the looks of the machine. The fact that it delivers the chems where you want them and at the rate that you want them, as well as the fact that it has an orbital motion. Makes it a far better machine that a normal rotary. The time saving factor of cutting out the time of prespraying makes it a sound investment for anybody who is going to be any volume work.
I would like to hear Jamie's comments on this as he obviously has a lot more experience on this subject than me.
It took me a long time to get results that I was anywhere near pleased with using lm systems.
Other observations made is that the results achieved with releasit hydrox have been far superior to surround or dynamall. Was I doing something wrong?

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

[Jamie Pearson]

I think there is a big market for a retro fit spray attachment than can b fitted to any rotary,

[Jamie Pearson]

I would like to hear Jamie's comments on this as he obviously has a lot more experience on this subject than me.

Firstly look at the work you will have to do. Is it one offs, restoratives, maintenance.

Rotary Floor Machine

Every one should have one and this may do you just fine depending on the types of work. However the following criteria need to be met. Speed (200rpm max), Weight ideally 40kg +, Size - 17" which gives the largest choice of bonnets/pads and also a good balance of size vs manoeuvrability.

In addition to the above there are systems that offer heat such as texatherm, dry fusion and thermadry. All good systems but chemistry has moved on sufficiently that heat isnt as major a factor as it once was. Agitation is the key.

We still to this day use the old Chemspec Rotobrite machines. A 20" 50kg rotary with built in spray system. On our maintenance contracts where there is a lot of furniture and soil levels are low these are still our weapon of choice. We can easily achieve 1,000m2 an hour with them using minimum chemicals.



Cimex

Now 80 years old this machine throws planetary action into the mix. Used more like a lawn mower than a rotary the triple head design offers 5 times the passes of a normal rotary in the same time. Big 25 litre tank and the ability to dispense a good amount of product for heavier soil and renovation cleans. These machines can handle anything from a rug through to a conference room. Renovation to maintenance. They look the part for anyone watching.

Here is a pic of me testing some modifications to ours last week


Here is forum user Robert Watson using his to good effect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UD_c2ocCP8

HOS Orbot

This machine gives all the benefits of an on-board spray system for easy chemical control and delivery along with its Orbital action giving great agitation and speed cleaning up to 1,000m2/hr depending on soil conditions.

Its 17" size lets you run agitation pads or bonnets. I also have the larger 19" heads and pads for big open area commercial maintenance.  Its absorbent cotton pads are particularly useful on wool for padcapping. The Orbot probably has the steepest learning curve of all the machines. The only down side to the Orbot is also its biggest advantage. It manages chemical delivery very well but can struggle to put a lot down for heavier jobs. Easily solved with a pre-spray (or a Cimex if you have one )

Like the Cimex it is a machine built for the task in hand so looks the part.

 

[Paul Moss]

I have both hbot and cimex r48, both have made me a lot of money. For the different types of commercial work we do, i find you need both machines to get the best results fast.

Its not just results but also the theatre whilst the job is being carried out 

[dan paton]

To Paul and Jamie .. if you could only have one or the other.. Which would it be ?

[Paul Moss]

Tough call as i really need both.

If i was pushed i would keep hbot.

[dan paton]

Cheers Paul... and u Jamie??? 

[peter maybury]

Thanks Jamie
and the question on chems?
Regards

Peter

[Karl Wildey]

I have a porty and TM, and use an old victor with pads for LM, but I need to look the part for this job. I agree with Ian, you need all 3 processes and I have all 3, but I need a professional LM system.
Some nice machines mention will start hurting for a 2nd one for starter, just in case its a one off clean and not turned into a maintain contact

[Jamie Pearson]

Cheers Paul... and u Jamie??? 

Based on the work I have at the moment I would say Orbot as it is 95% maintenance work that we do.

If I was starting out and building the portfolio I would go Cimex for the reasons mentioned above.

This is after I got myself a decent looking rotary machine.

[Paul Moss]

Jamie  is spot on. Bonnetting is easy once mastered but the customer cannot see the skill, so you need the theatre, and thats where a good looking all singing and dancing machine comes in.
Not only does the job, but looks the job  customers have seen standard rotaries but not Cimex or H Bot.

[Jamie Pearson]

Other observations made is that the results achieved with releasit hydrox have been far superior to surround or dynamall. Was I doing something wrong?

All 3 are great products. Did you do anything different when you used the Hydrox?
Were they different installations?

Dynamall and Hydrox will need a longer dwell than Surround as they are on the acid side of the pH scale.

Looking at the main encap products I have used the difference between them is in their make up.

Dynamall contains detergent, deodoriser, copolymer protector, oxi booster (5%) and the encapsulation polymer

Surround contains detergent, encap polymer and perfume depending on version

Prochem Procaps - as Surround, Woolsafe approved.

Chemspec Rotobrite 2 - Detergent, encap polymer, hydrogen peroxide (5-10%)

HOS Environ - High Surfactancy for zero dwell and greasy soil, hydrogen peroxide (?%) encap polymer. CRI approved.

Releasit Hydrox contains Encap polymer, Hydrogen Peroxide (10%) & Detergent. It is also further on the acid side of the pH scale (3.5) making the additional booster more stable in the bottle and effective on problem acid side soils, its Crystalon HP polymer is different from the regular Crystalon 3 in the rest of the range to make it more compatible with the oxidiser for improved cleaning.

If protector is required it can be applied afterwards.

Why one worked better than the other will be down to the above factors/features of the product and obviously the carpet & soil type.
Obviously there is only so much "space" in concentration for each ingredient so choosing what you actually need for the job will determine what to use.

Dynamall gives you a bit of everything thrown into the mix making it a great all rounder.

The Releasit range lets you tailor what you actually require to get the maximum performance.

Basic - Straight cleaning and encapsulation (no perfume or protector) 1:16 or 1:32 dilution
DS1 & 2 - Double Strength with Flurochemical Protector, Tea Tree Extract 1:32 dilution
Bio - As DS1 & 2 but no protectoe and EDFA approved
Punch - Surfactant loaded for greasier areas and zero dwell time, Protector, Tea Tree Extract variable dilutions as a pre-spray (before DS2 or Basic), Extraction Rinse, Spotter, Bonnet Cleaner (doesn't foam like the others so better for spray application), Upholstery Cleaner (synthetics) CRI approved.
HydrOx - Cleaning & Encapsulation (acid side) with peroxide booster. The favourite for wool carpet, organic soils & spills and upholstery cleaning.

Surround, Procaps, Releasit Basic, Punch & DS2 could all be boosted with Sodium Percarbonate (Chemspec Energizer, Prochem Oxibrite, Craftex Energybryte) if desired. Not something I have found the need for with the Releasit range.

[Jamie Pearson]

customers have seen standard rotaries but not Cimex or H Bot.

Customer gets a quote for a few hundred £'s and gets this.




vs

A quote for a £1k + and gets this (or its big bro)


The New Mini HOS - Should be great for domestics, available soon.

Both will do a great job with the right experience, chems and pads. One will do it a lot faster than the other and the initial outlay is obviously miles apart.

I am not a fan of using systems as a USP but as Paul says its about the theatre (an of course getting more toys to play with!)

[garry22]

Jamie, did you ever get hold of any 6" Fibrelok pads for the Cimex 38?

[Jamie Pearson]

Jamie, did you ever get hold of any 6" Fibrelok pads for the Cimex 38?

http://www.cleaningsystems.co.uk/product/726/fiberplus_carpet_cleaning_pads_6_5_inch