[gaza]

Just been talking to a big style w/c and he told me that these regs brought in on April 6th are no longer in force and that they have been ammended?

They only apply to painters etc?
I told him its a load of rubbish {or words to that fact} and he continued to slag of w/f/p to which I wasnt to pleased about as Im a full w/f /poler. Iwould like the HSE TO BE INVITED BY THE OWNWERS OF THIS FORUM TO ASK AN OFFICIAL FROM THE H/S/E to address us all on what is exactly the regs,cus at the moment Im being made out to customers that Im a lyer.

Ive done that much research to comply, and feel that Im the only one around here complying. isnt it time the hse started prosecutions to apply the regs [sorry to all window cleaners on here using ladders} but Im feed up with chepo window cleaners around here slagging me off [going to take flack about that}
Im not allowed to put on here how I feel about them,never had a bad word to say about w/cs but slowley beginning to hate everyone of them giving me bull. There has always been a code of honour amongst us ,but afraid its dissolving quickly with me and Im beginning to feel like a leper.

So Im going to canvass were ever I like.Its time wfp was given its justice instead of having to listen to people who havent got it or wont buy it because of the costs involved.,slagging it off WE took work of a wfp guy.its crap etc thats all I seem to hear.Well you fellow wfpolers do you think it time we took the work off them ladder users and started bragging we took the work off them?
going to take some slagging I know on here maybe I deserve it not trying to start a split between us on here{but it will take a brave poster to put a reply on here. but this is how I feel .:
THEIR IGNORANCE IS THEIR ARROGANCE BY gaza JULY 2005 QUITE PROFOUND YOU SEE IVE GOT A BRAIN AFTER ALL

[H h20]

Well Gaza,Gaz here from staffordshire,im a recent wfp user and theres no way i`ll ever go back to ladders wfp is 100% safer and easier access,i think the window cleaners who slag them off are jelous and have no brains about health and safety,so you keep on with wfp im never looking back mate!

[Ray Pickering]

GAZA.

You know me (a poor newly started struggling W/C)

I read the topics quite a lot now (as you can see by my posts) but i think like all H/safety issues they usually go over the top with everything, i worked in the building trade for (100) years & at least twice a year they would come up with some new rule or other.

Obviously you got to have them to a certain extent but there are limits as to how far they can go.

Now the delicate bit----- I can't see who's slagging you off especially on this Forum, i've seen on more than one occasion people wanting your number enquiring about WFP because you seem to be the man.

I like many on this Forum would change to WFP tomorrow but you know what your system cost & it's out of reach for most of us

GAZA don't be upset with comments on the street they know nothing.

Kind Regards Ray.

[brett walker]

Gaza  

calm down calm down

Sit down and relax before you burst a blood vessel

No-ones against you, everybody does things different ways on domestic houses there are millions of w/c using ladders its going to take years for people to change over to wfp for a number of reasons, most w/c's havent even heard of the regs .
For decades w/c's have been using ladders and in my opinion its going to be long time before people are converted but to be honest with you mate i think ladders will always be used along side wfp

Regarding code of honour there is not one in Nottingham most w/c's would stab you in the back thats why when i found this forum i could'nt believe how helpful and friendly everyone was, i wish this would have been around when i started 14 yrs ago

Good luck with your post

For those of you who are wondering yes Gaza has got a black belt in kareoke      

Gaza i know the only boss in your house is the wife  


regards

Brett.

[gaza]

cheers brett suger in tea from now on mate

 you know what I mean though dont you Brett?
Thought it was only this side of Nottm it happenned but do know youve a competior{not really no comparisoin} Brett your a sound guy thats how things used to be around here {like every other place in uk} all getting on, peeing in the same pot but some want the pot to themselves over here.                                                                                                                                                                                        Just ordered my merlin lets see the war start now, a lot cheaper than using resin vessels in a hard water area.
NnOT GOT TO WORRY ABOUT HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO DO A HOUSE 1ST CLEAN.

GAZA

[gaza]

RAY:when ever have you conformed with anything or anybody? {aving a lauff}

RAY :IF YOU WANT AND WANT IT BAD IT WILL COME TO YOU THROUGH YOUR DETERMANION.

might have a little work to give you  4/5 houses no more than a mile from you and two streets apart. might have to do them myself yet {desperation}setting in after my last episode see in a couple of weeks whats happening.

RAY not aving a go at anyone in particular just saying what I perseve to be right at the moment {whats happenning around here} never known it like this before.

Think they will be running scared in a few weeks Im going to blow them out of the water and watch them sink {slowly} Im taking their attitude back to them.

RAY I understand your position you carnt afford a wfp on a megre pension can you  {having a lauff}
Iwont tell you to sell your bike to fund your abitions.
I know you wouldnt sell your baby

 GAZA

[Paul Coleman]

Just been talking to a big style w/c and he told me that these regs brought in on April 6th are no longer in force and that they have been ammended?

They only apply to painters etc?
I told him its a load of rubbish {or words to that fact} and he continued to slag of w/f/p to which I wasnt to pleased about as Im a full w/f /poler. Iwould like the HSE TO BE INVITED BY THE OWNWERS OF THIS FORUM TO ASK AN OFFICIAL FROM THE H/S/E to address us all on what is exactly the regs,cus at the moment Im being made out to customers that Im a lyer.

Ive done that much research to comply, and feel that Im the only one around here complying. isnt it time the hse started prosecutions to apply the regs [sorry to all window cleaners on here using ladders} but Im feed up with chepo window cleaners around here slagging me off [going to take flack about that}
Im not allowed to put on here how I feel about them,never had a bad word to say about w/cs but slowley beginning to hate everyone of them giving me bull. There has always been a code of honour amongst us ,but afraid its dissolving quickly with me and Im beginning to feel like a leper.

So Im going to canvass were ever I like.Its time wfp was given its justice instead of having to listen to people who havent got it or wont buy it because of the costs involved.,slagging it off WE took work of a wfp guy.its crap etc thats all I seem to hear.Well you fellow wfpolers do you think it time we took the work off them ladder users and started bragging we took the work off them?
going to take some slagging I know on here maybe I deserve it not trying to start a split between us on here{but it will take a brave poster to put a reply on here. but this is how I feel .:
THEIR IGNORANCE IS THEIR ARROGANCE BY gaza JULY 2005 QUITE PROFOUND YOU SEE IVE GOT A BRAIN AFTER ALL

I can't say that I've noticed anyone slagging you off around here Gaza.  The only reason I haven't yet tried WFP is because the cost of setting it up properly would break me at the moment.  I guess i could afford it if I sold my flat, paid off my debts with the change, and went to rent a place.  I've felt so financially pressured at times, I've thought about doing that anyway.  As it is, I do an office cleaning job from 6 till 8 in the morning 5 days a week and I do more office cleaning in the evening.  One evening I do 2 more hours and on another I do 5 hours.  That's 17 hours a week (on the PAYE) in addition to my window cleaning round just to keep my head above water.  I make sure I am fully taxed on the PAYE work as it helps to reduce my half-yearly tax bill.  To add more outgoings at the moment would be financial suicide.
It won't always be like this.  I certainly need to see off another Winter (maybe two) before investing further in my business.
What I say to you is go ahead and canvass where you wish.  It's a free market.  One day (maybe in a couple of years), I will have a decent WFP system along the lines of what you have.  When I do that, I will try to get larger commercial jobs and sell off or rent out much of the domestic work that I currently have (I will keep the best of it for myself).  If that sounds selfish I don't care.  My finances are only in a pickle because I was too helpful in the past in my personal life.  The worm has turned.  It sounds like we are going through similar stuff Gaza.  Both been shafted in the past and both becoming more hard nosed to put it right.
Best wishes to ya.

[gaza]

SHINER :NO I DONT MEAN PEEPS ON HERE I mean on the street w/c who dont comply who Ive spoke to many times before about allsorts of w/c issues.some never knew that I had a wfp and still dont, their the ones I still talk to,the others can swivel from now on. It just seems since the regs came in the world around here is turning sour between us.

 EXEPT a black lad I met last night while I was collecting , never seen him before, hes only got a  couple of days work over this way,restored my faith in people ,a proper gentleman,
The way things were.

[Thecleanerservice]

Hi Gaza
I'm not quite sure what's gone on for you to get so enraged, but I think you can see so far, some of the guys on here seem to know you well, most if not all want WFP system but circumstances don't permit at the moment, none here are slagging it, I think if you've been cleaning windows for any length of time (18 years for me) then you know enough about pole systems to want one.  But we all have our story as to why we may be stuck with the traditional way for now.  As for me my knees are a bit knackered so I cut down on ladder work about 4 years ago, just over 2 years ago I had a heart attack, put me out of work 6 months.  I am clawing my way back doing what i do best.. windowcleaning.  I use a ladder about 1 day a week, most of my work I get to ground floor or step ladder.  I had a big round before, so I've been able to salvage enough to work that way.
So I hope you get my drift...everyone has their story, I admire your spirit, it probably got you where you are today, but do you really want people like me finished??  The way I operate is if I'm offered big work I pass it on to others, if you were around this way..East Anglia, you would know that about me.  whoever has upset you, try and sort it with them, but put your guns away man, today ain't the day for killing anyone.
I don't know you from Adam, but you seem OK to me, good sense of humour too from what I've read on here.  Just putting my pee in the pot.
Pj

[gaza]

The Cleaner Service :I take my hat of to you {heartattack and still working  fine example of a man} some people today have to retire early cus theve broken their flask.

you sound very simular to myself,give work away or put opotunities other peoples way.{tip my hat again}

NOT OR EVER WILL TRY TO STOP PEOPLE USING LADDERS
or condem people for using them [execpt one when I find his last name out} going underground

It seems a pity that peeps around here are beginning to find out that I ve a wfp system and have now started using it on domestics instead of just commercial nearly 4 years owned one. some of them still dont know, soon as they find out it seems Im a threat to them and they start slagging the system off.
                                                                                             The one today, Ive cleaned his relations windows many times while hes been there. [nearly took him on cus hes a window
who was out of work?}
 Just carnt understand it all.

 Never had this promlem when I used ladders on domestics.

 GAZA

[Ray Pickering]

Gaza.

You've got me sussed!!!

Rather sell the missus than the bike.

It's nice to see you're keeping your sense of humour!!!

Stick at it----i can't see anybody that's going to grind you down!!!

All the best------Ray.

[24-7 S C Services]

Hi Gaza and everyone else;

The full copy of the working at height regulation is located here :- http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20050735.htm#sch6

This regulation affects all trades including painters & decorators and window cleaners: -

Here is a brief description: -


•   avoid work at height where they can;
•   use work equipment or other measures to prevent falls where they cannot avoid working at height; and
•   where they cannot eliminate the risk of a fall, use work equipment or other measures to minimise the distance and consequences of a fall should one occur.


After speaking to a HSA officer some months back, he believes that window cleaners are directly effected by this and should not use ladders, as equipment is available for them not to use ladders, not just wfp, but extension poles are available for the normal window cleaning tools.

I was also told be the same person, any person operating above 2 metres, must have the ladders tied to an eyehook or something similar and the top run of the ladder must be above the hieght of the operavtives head. So this means, not propped on the window ledge. It is also the property owners responsibility to install eyehooks or similar devices and for them to have them safety checked every year. If this is not done, the property owner is also liable to prosecution.

What I also took from this lenghy conversation was, until a serious accident is reported that accurs via ladders and a window cleaner nothing will really be done. But when the accident accurs, there will ba a massive clamp down. The window cleaner and property owner (if they are at fault) will both be prosecuted. If and when that happens and it goes public, that’s when the trouble will start.

As for that window cleaner giving you stick, some people don’t like change and feel threatened by it. Don’t let it get to you. At the end of the day I utilise both wfp and traditional methods, I do not use ladders, I do from time to time utilise a scaffold tower for gutters and fascia’s. I cannot afford to risk an accident on ladders and be out of work and I would not allow any member of my staff to use ladders either.

I hope this information helps people and I don’t want the information to affend anyone either. If you wish to use ladders, that is your responsibility, just use them safely  

Andrew

[DASERVICES]

  I know I am a newby on here but I for one want to go to WFP, for a fact I dont
  want to risk me falling off the ladders. Nowadays I see people designing their
  gardens not to fault them, but are full of hazards for us guys.

  An accident is waiting to happen, hence I want to change to wfp. My frustation
  is I find is when contacting certain companies the lack of information coming
  from them regarding WFP. ( IONIC etc..) For the price we are expected to pay
  I would expect a 100% service.

  Sorry for moaning.

  Gazza reading with interest your reports on here I think you have a wealth of
  experience.

[gaza]

24/7 : thats how I read them from other write ups so carnt see what these other w/c are on about.The best one yet is, it only applies to w/c in the city? were he dragged that one up from I may never know.I never tell them im a poler unless they ask,they dont even know Im a w/c, sometimes just exchanging banter cus Im also a wheelie bin cleaner.

 seen a van going around here builders van I think 23 3/4 hr call out, thought of him adding 8 days a week.

 thanks for the info its a bit more condenced  version than I have may use it as an attachment to a flyer.

 gaza

[24-7 S C Services]

Hi Gaza,

Wonders will never cease.

I have a small article reflecting the Working at Height on the back of my flyers. I will mail you a copy if you like. The feedback i have received from it so far is very good. However, i have also found and no doubt everyone has come across this, some people (clients that is) dont really care, they just want a cheap service, the ones like that I dont take on.


Andrew

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

the reason i am wfp is not because of any H&S regulations my 1 and only concern is for my own safety,

personally i don't care what the regs are regarding ladders as i don't use them whilst window cleaning,

however it's fair to say that those of you that still use ladders please take every safety precaution that is available on the marget place (there are plenty of them)

the last thing i want to read about on this forum is 1 of our fellow friends in hospital having fallen off!

TAKE CARE OUT THERE

[gaza]

ANDREW: THANKS FOR THE OFFER,but still carnt do email which is annoying cus Ive a web site up and running changing everything to a new laptop so as to bypass the gremlins on this piece of expensive plastic [told the kids not to download music picked up some trojans {does that mean know one will talk to me now} will feel as though Ive got the dreaded lergy.jUST BOUGHT A MEMORY STICK but carnt remember how to use it

Iwill not your kind offer and email you as soon as ITS safe for me to do so {wouldnt like to spread the dreaded lergy.

 gaza

[windows_chepstow]

Hi Gaza,

Wonders will never cease.

I have a small article reflecting the Working at Height on the back of my flyers. I will mail you a copy if you like. The feedback i have received from it so far is very good. However, i have also found and no doubt everyone has come across this, some people (clients that is) dont really care, they just want a cheap service, the ones like that I dont take on.


Andrew

You can post the information up here if you like.

[gaza]

daservices : I f you want to go wfp ask any questions on here and try search facility at the top of this page.

STEP 1/. If you are going wfp 1st have your water tested for hardness this will tell you which way to go di or ro. easy way is buy a tds meter cus if you do decide to go ahead with wfp you ll need one anyway,about 17/24 squid, post ur results on here and watch the replies. I know from experience its rather expensive to run di vessels in a hard water area. just bought a merlin ro awaiting delivery so will be able to make a good comparison  between them both.

watch my honest joe write ups about how good or bad it is.

with only being a newbie[to w/c or forum dont know which} My advice would be try and hone in  the other sides of being selfemployed 1st eg canvassing ,how to talk to people, how to get people to say yes when they mean no. build your round up with easy access houses for when you do go wfp.

gaza

[Thecleanerservice]

Thanks for the acknowledgement Gaza
I'll keep on keeping on.  You are way ahead of me with windowcleaning technology.
and good to see you sharing and helping on here.. Keep it up.  But keep cool.  Stress can lead to health problems and, believe me, I know what it's like to have the rug pulled from under you.
One thing I may be able to help you with though....
Your spelling and punctuation is in need of assistance:
But don't worry you sure get your message across
Pj