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Poll

should they be banned

yes completely
15.5%
15 (15.5%)
yes over a certain height
28.9%
28 (28.9%)
no
55.7%
54 (55.7%)

Total Members Voted: 83

martinsadie

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2010, 06:19:11 pm »
Respect the ladder and the ladder will respect you 8)
well said ,im going now to wash and polish my ladders  ;D ;D

The Jester of Wibbly

  • Posts: 2125
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2010, 06:24:37 pm »
Respect the ladder and the ladder will respect you 8)
well said ,im going now to wash and polish my ladders  ;D ;D

and allow it time to sneeze into her makeup bag too ;D
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martinsadie

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2010, 06:39:17 pm »
Respect the ladder and the ladder will respect you 8)
well said ,im going now to wash and polish my ladders  ;D ;D

and allow it time to sneeze into her makeup bag too ;D
??? ??? ???

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2010, 06:50:31 pm »
 ;D guys girls Ladders will not be banned we have been here before just live with them,its the idiot ::)behind the Ladder that dont respect it ::) man always blames bad tools HELLO  :o
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

williamx

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2010, 06:55:45 pm »
;D guys girls Ladders will not be banned we have been here before just live with them,its the idiot ::)behind the Ladder that dont respect it ::) man always blames bad tools HELLO  :o

So this guy is an idiot http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/wakefieldnews/Wakefield-window-cleaner39s-fall-death.6187040.jp

I am sure his family will be happy to hear that.

martinsadie

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2010, 06:59:58 pm »
;D guys girls Ladders will not be banned we have been here before just live with them,its the idiot ::)behind the Ladder that dont respect it ::) man always blames bad tools HELLO  :o

So this guy is an idiot http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/wakefieldnews/Wakefield-window-cleaner39s-fall-death.6187040.jp

I am sure his family will be happy to hear that.
no hes not an idiot but we will never know if he took a silly risk or set the ladders wrong

williamx

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2010, 07:01:56 pm »
;D guys girls Ladders will not be banned we have been here before just live with them,its the idiot ::)behind the Ladder that dont respect it ::) man always blames bad tools HELLO  :o

So this guy is an idiot http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/wakefieldnews/Wakefield-window-cleaner39s-fall-death.6187040.jp

I am sure his family will be happy to hear that.
no hes not an idiot but we will never know if he took a silly risk or set the ladders wrong

or he just had an accident that did not need to happen.

paul rulton

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2010, 07:48:49 pm »
They dont stop ladders sliding from underneath you!
My personal experience, which is for 10 years every upstairs window I did I did with a standoff on the sill, would dispute that Matt, I can think of 3 or 4 occasions, when used whilst resting on a sill that the standoff prevented the ladder from slipping any further than it did, thus saving me from a fall.
dont stop ya bum from flexin tho does it m8  ;D lol

paul rulton

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2010, 08:11:51 pm »
It still winks  ;)
HAHA  ;D propper belly wobble  ;D lol

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2010, 08:23:01 pm »
How many hours do the people of this nation spend behind the wheel? And how many hours up a ladder? Proportionately,.. per hour, the risk of death from being up a ladder is hundreds of times greater than the risk from driving.

When you get into a car though, you recognise the potential for injury & wear a seatbelt though. You can't remove the risks but you can minimise them.

Ladders will never be banned, but the restrictions currently laid out in law will one day be enforced and on that day a lot of the trad guys here will get a shock. You're only allowed to use ladders where there is no practicable alternative. In 99% of situations there is an alternative.

A basic WFP setup (backpack) can cost less than trad equipment,.. I know I'll never convince everyone to switch completely but I'd love if everyone had at least a basic wfp kit just for the awkward & dangerous windows.

Yes we should ban them and the reason, there is an alternative that will do the job without the chance even a remote one that the cleaner will die.

In the 1800's miners used canaries to detect explosive gases, then in 1815 the miners lamps was used, since them it has been updated many times and nowdays the casaulty rate from explosions in this country and many around the world is almost nil.

In ww1 and ww11 mine detecting use to be a bannonet prodding the ground in front of the solider, now they use mine detectors.

These are only 2 examples, but the only reason these changes happened was safety of the workforce, I would not like to be in the place of the miner who had to use a canaries instead of the gas detecting equipment they have nowadays.

If ultimate safety was a real concern to any of us, then we would all stop driving - something which we all treat as an everyday activity. According to government statistics, there are 12 ladder deaths a year and 3000 road deaths a year. Sad as these ladder accidents are, we need to keep safety in perspective.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2010, 08:29:31 pm »
A basic WFP setup (backpack) can cost less than trad equipment,..
Oh come on! Might be pretty cheap these days, but not cheaper than traditional!

Ladder (good trade one) £150-200
Bucket, scrims, squeegee etc... another £50-70 or so max.

Like to see you get a backpack, pole, brush, water barrels and purification kit for £250!

Ian W

  • Posts: 1161
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2010, 08:33:19 pm »
I do have wfp Nat. But I just don't see the point of this thread.

Regardless of how many window cleaners there are compared to the whole population, the number of deaths (for all ladder users, not just window cleaners) do not warrant a ban by H&S. Now insurance companies refusing to insure for ladders may be another issue and one that could lead to the demise of professional trad cleaners.
Do all the good you can, and make as little fuss about it as possible.
Charles Dickens

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2010, 08:34:49 pm »

Like to see you get a backpack, pole, brush, water barrels and purification kit for £250!

Harris pole £15
Small DI filled £80 odd
ebay or WCW backpack about £100
Hose & connectors £20
Barrels £20 (£4 each)

Thats enough to do the odd awkward window. Add a cheap RO (about £140 for a 300gpd system on ebay) and you can go WFP full time, even if you still do downstairs trad.

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2010, 08:38:30 pm »
I agree there shouldn't be a ban, and there won't be. for those 12 deaths, how many serious injurys were there? 100x as many? and how many minor injuries?
Ladders should be used sensibly, and the law says only where no other option is practicable. I just annoys me that so many choose to ignore this part of the law. I do use ladders myself on occasion, but only where wfp won't do the job and only for short duration work.

I do have wfp Nat. But I just don't see the point of this thread.

Regardless of how many window cleaners there are compared to the whole population, the number of deaths (for all ladder users, not just window cleaners) do not warrant a ban by H&S. Now insurance companies refusing to insure for ladders may be another issue and one that could lead to the demise of professional trad cleaners.

williamx

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2010, 08:45:50 pm »
I don't know how old the 12 deaths is, but at Windex 2010, in the Heath & Safety senimar the death rate last year was over 50, and its has been steadly rising for the last 3 years.

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2010, 08:47:53 pm »
50 might of been total ladder deaths in the year and 12 the Nat stated might be the number of window cleaners that died out of that 50.




Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

williamx

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2010, 08:54:53 pm »
Well 12 imo is 12 too many

woody1

Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2010, 08:56:03 pm »
still be up my ladders tuesday they wont be banned so why people still keep saying it grow up people  :)

lcwalker

  • Posts: 412
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2010, 08:57:34 pm »
Yes we should ban them and the reason, there is an alternative that will do the job without the chance even a remote one that the cleaner will die.

In the 1800's miners used canaries to detect explosive gases, then in 1815 the miners lamps was used, since them it has been updated many times and nowdays the casaulty rate from explosions in this country and many around the world is almost nil.

In ww1 and ww11 mine detecting use to be a bannonet prodding the ground in front of the solider, now they use mine detectors.

These are only 2 examples, but the only reason these changes happened was safety of the workforce, I would not like to be in the place of the miner who had to use a canaries instead of the gas detecting equipment they have nowadays.
I cleaned some very dirty sills the other day and there is know way a wfp would have got them clean explain how they can be cleaned without getting up close by ladder?.

lcwalker

  • Posts: 412
Re: should ladders be banned
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2010, 08:59:11 pm »
Lets also ban cars they cause loads of deaths each year and you have to have a licence to drive one?. :D
Basically theres lots of things that people use that can be dangerous but they can be used by anyone Nailguns,circular saws,Grinders,Chainsaws (at home domestically),Welders, are just a few that can cause serious damage or death if not used correctly but will they be banned (not a chance the same goes for ladders if used correctly they are safe.