[mick partington]

may be worth while people posting who have taken a fall and listing what happened 
i was chatting to a windy the other week cleaning for 20 yrs no falls than sliped on green moss on small flat roof above a door 3 months in hospital bad back he admitted to wearing trainers but would safety boots have made any differance ...

[AuRavelling79]

From a health and safety view then they should be banned for window cleaning above ground floor. Say 2 metres is the highest your feet should be allowed to rest. This will allow for gate hopping and high ground floor or shop windows. Also for access to a flat roof at first floor level I would say it would be an acceptable risk.

But from a selfish commercial view then don't ban them! Trad window cleaners have dwindled to an irrelevance around my way - perhaps some older semi-retired gent or a raggit and run merchant might use them; but any serious competition to my business, unlike just two or three years ago, no longer comes from trad users.

Because trad users who want a successful (as in good hourly rate) business for the long term will switch to wfp.

Around here in Bristol that has already happened and "oop North" it will happen eventually. The only traddies round here are viewed as "bathroom window and frame dodgers" and are no threat whatsoever. The number of people willing to pay a premium for trad are just a handful of luddites and not enough to build a business upon. Period.

[martinsadie]

From a health and safety view then they should be banned for window cleaning above ground floor. Say 2 metres is the highest your feet should be allowed to rest. This will allow for gate hopping and high ground floor or shop windows. Also for access to a flat roof at first floor level I would say it would be an acceptable risk.

But from a selfish commercial view then don't ban them! Trad window cleaners have dwindled to an irrelevance around my way - perhaps some older semi-retired gent or a raggit and run merchant might use them; but any serious competition to my business, unlike just two or three years ago, no longer comes from trad users.

Because trad users who want a successful (as in good hourly rate) business for the long term will switch to wfp.

Around here in Bristol that has already happened and "oop North" it will happen eventually. The only traddies round here are viewed as "bathroom window and frame dodgers" and are no threat whatsoever. The number of people willing to pay a premium for trad are just a handful of luddites and not enough to build a business upon. Period.

self self self

[SteveAllan]

For the love of god, must we do this again :

[williamx]

Yes we should ban them and the reason, there is an alternative that will do the job without the chance even a remote one that the cleaner will die.

In the 1800's miners used canaries to detect explosive gases, then in 1815 the miners lamps was used, since them it has been updated many times and nowdays the casaulty rate from explosions in this country and many around the world is almost nil.

In ww1 and ww11 mine detecting use to be a bannonet prodding the ground in front of the solider, now they use mine detectors.

These are only 2 examples, but the only reason these changes happened was safety of the workforce, I would not like to be in the place of the miner who had to use a canaries instead of the gas detecting equipment they have nowadays.

[paul rulton]

hitman why did you fall off were you rushing to make more money or careless,not having a pop but thats how most accidents happen,when ive fell i know why and put it right

1st time the bottom went out from under me & the 2nd time the ladder broke 

[Tom White]

That sounds safe enough for me, Matt, and I regularly use a stand off for gutter cleans; but using one for routine 1st access to windows trad window cleaning wouldn't be practical.

Firstly you can't close your ladders properly and they're quite top heavy to cart about all day.

For the odd 'dodgy window' yes, but for routine window cleaning, 'no' IMHO.

[dazmond]

hi c and b window cleaning i apoligise wholeheartly.i read your post wrong!yes it would be safer to put it on the sill in regards to ladders slipping.ive only ever used mine for gutter clearing and conny roof cleaning with a wfp sometimes.

regards

dazmond

[martinsadie]

From a health and safety view then they should be banned for window cleaning above ground floor. Say 2 metres is the highest your feet should be allowed to rest. This will allow for gate hopping and high ground floor or shop windows. Also for access to a flat roof at first floor level I would say it would be an acceptable risk.

But from a selfish commercial view then don't ban them! Trad window cleaners have dwindled to an irrelevance around my way - perhaps some older semi-retired gent or a raggit and run merchant might use them; but any serious competition to my business, unlike just two or three years ago, no longer comes from trad users.

Because trad users who want a successful (as in good hourly rate) business for the long term will switch to wfp.

Around here in Bristol that has already happened and "oop North" it will happen eventually. The only traddies round here are viewed as "bathroom window and frame dodgers" and are no threat whatsoever. The number of people willing to pay a premium for trad are just a handful of luddites and not enough to build a business upon. Period.

you forgot about being able to use ladders in winter when your wfp wouldnt work

[Ian W]

Yes we should ban them and the reason, there is an alternative that will do the job without the chance even a remote one that the cleaner will die.

In the 1800's miners used canaries to detect explosive gases, then in 1815 the miners lamps was used, since them it has been updated many times and nowdays the casaulty rate from explosions in this country and many around the world is almost nil.

In ww1 and ww11 mine detecting use to be a bannonet prodding the ground in front of the solider, now they use mine detectors.

These are only 2 examples, but the only reason these changes happened was safety of the workforce, I would not like to be in the place of the miner who had to use a canaries instead of the gas detecting equipment they have nowadays.

If ultimate safety was a real concern to any of us, then we would all stop driving - something which we all treat as an everyday activity. According to government statistics, there are 12 ladder deaths a year and 3000 road deaths a year. Sad as these ladder accidents are, we need to keep safety in perspective.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

what are you on about?NEVER rest the stand off on the sill!!underneath on the brickwork if your using one.

dont give out dodgy/dangerous advice!! :

What?

By resting a stand-off on the brickwork the only benefit is that it will give you more room to work with (face not up against the glass), for me a stand-off is also there to help prevent ladder slippage. In fact that is the main purpose of one so far as I am concerned.

It isnt dodgy nor is it dangerous. I am not giving out dangerous advice. It saved me a couple of times from ladder slip, if I hadn't have been using the ladder and stand-off in that way there would have  been at least 1 more casualty to the statistics.

It makes it safer. You obviously are mis-interpreting what I am suggesting, please dont run this suggestion down until you are sure you understand how it works.

The way a ladder stand off works is the wider legs, this gives you more stability, they are not designed to be placed on the sil!
They dont stop ladders sliding from underneath you!
They stop the ladders from sliding laterally!
To stop the ladder from sliding underneath you, you need a rojak pad or similar.


Matt

[martinsadie]

i tend to use a stand off to clean domar windows and thats all

[Smudger]

Hi guys,  personally i will not use ladders already taken a 15ft tumble and walked away with nothing but sore ribs and shoulder at the time ladder was at good angle and solid ground the window was  straightforward and no wider than 3 ft.  but something happened and the ladder just went sideways and me straight down!

for those who say it's the user, not ladders  i will point out to you this was 1 arguement when seatbelts came in, back then people poo pood these but i bet virtually everyone here now wears one!
 so no one is going to tell you how to work? -  well you cant smoke in your van,  use your mobile while driving and many other things that the 'great british' public are told to do weather they like it or not.

the use of ladders is going to be about perception not how many die or get injured.

ladders will be allowed as 'private' use but at some point ladders by companies will (i think) be banned.


i saw a atelite fitter the other day install a dish, and fair play he drilled into the building and secured his ladder so he took his H&S seriously


At the end of the day if you wish to risk YOUR life for health for £10  then thats upto you i prefer these days to stay on the ground.

and ICWalker - not to start an arguement but i have got many window sills/frames cleaner than trad guys! esp 1st floor ones

Darran

[martinsadie]

i saw a atelite fitter the other day install a dish, and fair play he drilled into the building and secured his ladder so he took his H&S seriously

sky would sack him if he didnt 

[Smudger]

Stan,

then does this not make the point that unless this is done you will not be allowed to use ladders?

Darran

[tomy jackson]

passed a sky man with non of the abuth must be cos its easter sunday  

[AuRavelling79]

Hmmm - looks like I've touched a nerve Stan ...

[martinsadie]

Stan,

then does this not make the point that unless this is done you will not be allowed to use ladders?

Darran

thats skys own policy to stop workers claiming for ladder falls,i have no problem with people making the use of ladders safer for emplees but one man outfits should be able to get on with there own safty arrangements

[martinsadie]

Hmmm - looks like I've touched a nerve Stan ...

not really you just want them when it suits you,as for up north theres at least 10 trad men to 1 wfp man ,it only seems that wfp rules because they use this forum more for technical advice

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Respect the ladder and the ladder will respect you