[Ian W]

Sorry, I misquoted the number doing it from memory. It is provisionally 16 deaths in 2007/2008. 52 deaths in 2006/2007. More deaths, but still relatively small compared to about 3000 a year on the roads.

Any death that is caused by accident is a death too many, but these things will continue to happen in all walks of life. Let's not get paranoid about these things.

[lcwalker]

A basic WFP setup (backpack) can cost less than trad equipment,..

Oh come on! Might be pretty cheap these days, but not cheaper than traditional!

Ladder (good trade one) £150-200
Bucket, scrims, squeegee etc... another £50-70 or so max.

Like to see you get a backpack, pole, brush, water barrels and purification kit for £250!

I set up for about £60 total i was given my ladder,i reckon you are talking atleast £500 for a basic WFP setup.

[williamx]

Nope £396 if you went to wcw, if you shopped around you would be able to save another £100

[williamx]

Yes we should ban them and the reason, there is an alternative that will do the job without the chance even a remote one that the cleaner will die.

In the 1800's miners used canaries to detect explosive gases, then in 1815 the miners lamps was used, since them it has been updated many times and nowdays the casaulty rate from explosions in this country and many around the world is almost nil.

In ww1 and ww11 mine detecting use to be a bannonet prodding the ground in front of the solider, now they use mine detectors.

These are only 2 examples, but the only reason these changes happened was safety of the workforce, I would not like to be in the place of the miner who had to use a canaries instead of the gas detecting equipment they have nowadays.

I cleaned some very dirty sills the other day and there is know way a wfp would have got them clean explain how they can be cleaned without getting up close by ladder?.

Well the easiest way would be to clean them from the inside, if you cannot do that then I would change the angle of my angle adaptor fit a mop on it soak the mop in some detergent, or oil flo or any other chechimals that remove stubborm stains, I would then agitate the mop on the sill thereby removing the dirt, I would then change over to my wfp brush and rinse off.

Its not rocket science, it cleaning windows from the safety of the ground.

[lcwalker]

Yes we should ban them and the reason, there is an alternative that will do the job without the chance even a remote one that the cleaner will die.

In the 1800's miners used canaries to detect explosive gases, then in 1815 the miners lamps was used, since them it has been updated many times and nowdays the casaulty rate from explosions in this country and many around the world is almost nil.

In ww1 and ww11 mine detecting use to be a bannonet prodding the ground in front of the solider, now they use mine detectors.

These are only 2 examples, but the only reason these changes happened was safety of the workforce, I would not like to be in the place of the miner who had to use a canaries instead of the gas detecting equipment they have nowadays.

I cleaned some very dirty sills the other day and there is know way a wfp would have got them clean explain how they can be cleaned without getting up close by ladder?.

Well the easiest way would be to clean them from the inside, if you cannot do that then I would change the angle of my angle adaptor fit a mop on it soak the mop in some detergent, or oil flo or any other chechimals that remove stubborm stains, I would then agitate the mop on the sill thereby removing the dirt, I would then change over to my wfp brush and rinse off.

Its not rocket science, it cleaning windows from the safety of the ground.

Im sorry you didn't see these sills they would not have cleaned from the ground end of.Yes they would probably have cleaned ok from inside the house but that doesn't look very professional having to go in the house IMO.Whatever anybody thinks the way i did them up the ladder was the best and quickest way.

[idealrob]

[ IMO.Whatever anybody thinks the way i did them up the ladder was the best and quickest way.

sadly against WAHR and you are probably working illegally, and chance of thousand of pounds in fines and court costs

idealrob

[Ian W]

[ IMO.Whatever anybody thinks the way i did them up the ladder was the best and quickest way.

sadly against WAHR and you are probably working illegally, and chance of thousand of pounds in fines and court costs

idealrob

Please explain why it is against wahr?

[Ste M]

i love it when people qoute wahr without knowing the facts

im insured for working off a ladder so i guess my insurance company knows fook all :

[Nathanael Jones]

im insured for working off a ladder so i guess my insurance company knows fook all :

You're insurance company will know very well how to quote the law and avoid paying out a claim,...

My insurance covers me for ladder use also, but the small print states that I'm only insured where my activities are "within the law",....

[Ste M]

im insured for working off a ladder so i guess my insurance company knows fook all :

You're insurance company will know very well how to quote the law and avoid paying out a claim,...

My insurance covers me for ladder use also, but the small print states that I'm only insured where my activities are "within the law",....

i am insured for acces and also cleaning gutters off a ladder, its what is stated on my policy

[williamx]

i love it when people qoute wahr without knowing the facts

The whad state you MUST use the safest alternative method first if there is one.

I pointed out 2 safer alternatives, he didn't even consider 1

[williamx]

a wfp pole, it seems to do the job

[martinsadie]

Thats enough to do the odd awkward window. Add a cheap RO (about £140 for a 300gpd system on ebay) and you can go WFP full time, even if you still do downstairs trad.

dont need a wfp system for the odd awkard window as i tell the customer i cant do it if its dangerous and nobody complains

[martinsadie]

. Now insurance companies refusing to insure for ladders may be another issue and one that could lead to the demise of professional trad cleaners.

insurance companys wont pay out if you have spikes on your ladders so thats most around here up the creek as we all have spikes

[idealrob]

[quote

Please explain why it is against wahr?

You can only use a ladder after consulting safer options, as all work has to be done from the ground, also if you are to use a ladder a full written risk assesment has to be made, and then if you still use a ladder it has to be secured. Fact
forget the WAHR, do you secure & do risk assesment
As for the post of the paralysed window cleaner not getting paid out as he was not covered, or as most policys have a work within the law get out, like the paralysed w/c

as most who thinks, s*d it I l just use a ladder, and never reply and hope the post goes away, I lookh forward to yoyr reply

idealrob

[ivesonswc]

Why do people keep on moaning about ladders and wfp

1, the goverment will not spend money enforcing wfp and banning ladders above ground floor

2, the only thing that will happen in the long run is the goverment will charge each window cleaner a licence fee for large companys the fee will be huge

i don't know about you but the goverment get enough money off me with out having to spend hundreds of pound each year to get a licence

[idealrob]

Why do people keep on moaning about ladders and wfp

1, the goverment will not spend money enforcing wfp and banning ladders above ground floor

2, the only thing that will happen in the long run is the goverment will charge each window cleaner a licence fee for large companys the fee will be huge

i don't know about you but the goverment get enough money off me with out having to spend hundreds of pound each year to get a licence

You are right, the goverment will never ever spend mony enforcing WFP, but the goverment are spending millions enforcing WAHR and other h & S laws, why, because its money, and money rules the world. The sad paralysed window cleaner, whos insurance would not pay out, is now supported by taxes for him & his familly, new bungalow etc, which he is entitled to, and as the advert says "shattered lives". Thats why they brought out WAHR,

its not about trad v WFP, its about going home safely every night, abiding by the law and looking after my staff as well as the people we work for and their tennants

idealrob

[sparklebright]

No that would be silly.

By the way I am wfp but ladders are needed at times by all sorts of people, you cannot make the world completely safe,

[woody1]

if ladders are banned for window cleaners why do they sell them also if you dont have a waterfed set you cant use it as a safer alternative can you so there for my only way of cleaning windows is using a ladder 

[Nathanael Jones]

if you dont have a waterfed set you cant use it as a safer alternative can you

If you've been in the business 12 months or more and haven't made enough money to invest in a basic setup then you should really go and get a factory job.

dont need a wfp system for the odd awkard window as i tell the customer i cant do it if its dangerous and nobody complains

If only all window cleaners had the same attitude Stan. There's a lot of guys here that could learn from you.