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garyj

This could be serious!!
« on: July 18, 2005, 11:51:48 pm »
I hope this message gets read before I get laughed at !!

I've had to post it in 2 lots as it is to long!!

Earlier this evening someone posted and mentioned the word nanotechnology and how the carpet fibres go through a polymer change when the chemical is applied. Now I don't know about you, but that rather worried me and prompted me to do a search on google to find out more about these chemicals we are spraying around all over the place. Some of the pages I found are alarming, look for yourself, just type nanotechnology into google.

This is what I found on wisegeek-

Nanotechnology is a branch of science that deals with particles 1-100 nanometers in size. Experts believe possible dangers of nanotechnology lie in how these tiny particles might interact with the environment, and more importantly, with the human body. Billions of dollars are being spent to incorporate nanoparticles into products that are already being marketed to the public; when this investment is compared to the the comparatively scant research into nanotech health issues, some scientists become concerned.

Experts say the issue is that elements encountered at the nanoscale behave differently than their larger counterparts. As an example, graphite’s properties are well known and it holds specific position in toxicology guidelines. Nobel winning physicist Richard Smalley of Rice University discovered carbon nanotubes and fullerenes (buckyballs) – nanoparticles of carbon – which are legally categorized as graphite, yet they behave in ways unlike graphite making the classification a potentially dangerous one.

Case in point: in March 2004 tests conducted by environmental toxicologist Eva Oberdörster, Ph.D., with Southern Methodist University in Texas found extensive brain damage to fish exposed to fullerenes for a period of just 48 hours at a relatively moderate dose of 0.5 parts per million (commiserate with levels of other kinds of pollution found in bays). The fish also exhibited changed gene markers in their livers, indicating their entire physiology was affected. In a concurrent test, the fullerenes killed water fleas, an important link in the marine food chain.

Oberdorster could not say whether fullerenes would also cause brain damage in humans but cautioned that more studies are necessary and that the accumulation of fullerenes over time could be a concern, particularly if they were allowed to enter the food chain. Earlier studies in 2002 by CBEN (Center for Biological and Environmental Nanotechnology) indicated nanoparticles accumulated in the bodies of lab animals, and still other studies showed fullerenes travel freely through soil and could be absorbed by earthworms. This is a potential link up the food chain to humans and presents one of the possible dangers of nanotechnology.

Other nanoparticles have also been shown to have adverse effects. Research from University of California in San Diego in early 2002 revealed cadmium selenide nanoparticles, also called quantum dots, can cause cadmium poisoning in humans. In 2004 British scientist Vyvyan Howard published initial findings that indicated gold nanoparticles might move through a mother’s placenta to the fetus; and as far back as 1997 scientists at Oxford discovered nanoparticles used in sunscreen created free radicals that damaged DNA.

Complicating the dangers of nanotechnology, size and shape of nanoparticles affect the level of toxicity, preempting the ease of uniform categories even when considering a single element. In general, experts report smaller particles are more bioactive and toxic. Their ability to interact with other living systems increases because they can easily cross the skin, lung, and in some cases the blood/brain barriers. Once inside the body, there may be further biochemical reactions like the creation of free radicals that damage cells.

While the body has built-in defenses for natural particles it encounters, the danger of nanotechnology is that it is introducing entirely new type of particles. Particles some experts say the body is likely to find toxic. ........... more.....

garyj

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2005, 11:52:13 pm »
Highest at risk are workers employed by manufacturers producing products that contain nanoparticles. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) reports over 2 million Americans are exposed to high levels of nanoparticles and they believe this figure will rise to 4 million in the near future. NIOSH publishes safety guidelines and other information for those employed in the nanoindustry.

There is no doubt that nanoparticles have interesting and useful properties. That said, many groups propose a moratorium on marketing and urge research to precede manufacturing rather than proceed it. Strong economic drives and competition in the marketplace may be taking precedence over methodical scientific prudence when it comes to public health and possible dangers of nanotechnology.

Some have compared the situation to that of asbestos dust – another material that was assumed safe until it was learned that it can cause cancer from accumulation in the body. Today 3,000 deaths per year are still attributed to asbestos from decades-old use. Those concerned with possible dangers of nanotechnology wish to avoid a similar or even worse scenario down the road, especially considering the growing market for nanoparticles in such diverse products as car paint, tennis rackets, and make-up.

Nanotechnology should not be confused with molecular nanotechnology (MNT) a still theoretical science dedicated to manufacturing products from the atom up through use of nanoscale machines. MNT is spearheaded by physicist Dr. Eric Drexler, who coined the term, “nanotechnology” and later, “molecular nanotechnology.”



copyright © 2005 wiseGEEK
 
I really, really hope that someone has a damn good reply to that, and best of all this topic gets deleted because I don't know what I'm talking about...... but it looks like none of us do when it comes to this.

There is something else I'd like to add, but lets get some replies to this first.

Gavin Reardon

  • Posts: 464
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2005, 01:15:09 am »
If your that concern Gary then don't use it  ???
Gavin Reardon IICRC / NCCA

www.ace-cleaning.co.uk

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2005, 01:29:58 am »
if i understood half of what you said i would agree are you lonley and sad to be able to write that much on on single subject without the help of a dictionary and professor of technology, wow i admire you you are the real clean it up god. i bow in tribute to your knowledge.. HAIL THE NEW CEASER HE HAC COMETH
listen,learn.and benefit. try. reward.and love, peace harmony.feng shui. and all that. it improves ones selling .to ones customers.reap THE HARVEST WHILST YOU CAN. and try to crush the opposition.

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2005, 10:26:36 am »
Hi Gary

I read your post with interest, However having read it it actually refers to particular types of nano technology

The reason I say this is the origin or type of nano particle, would on all occasions dictate as to whether it was harmful. ie if you take a harmless chemical and process nano particles from it it would still be harmless.

The Nano particle discussion you have highlighted concerns cadmium selenide nano particles

Most carpet protectors on the market effectively form what is termed as a polymeric type finish when applied to textiles on drying.

The nano particles used in Solugard for example can only go through their molecular change once the carrier (water) has evaporated. which means even if it were to be absorbed through the human body it could not react as it would not be able to dry out, thus making is a far safer product than a wide range of accepted other protectors.

Solugard is neutral to the skin, solvent free, water based and carries no dangerous product labelling as stated on it's EC safety data Sheet.

In truth Nano-technolgy is not a chemical it is a process, anything below 100 nano is sometimes termed as Nano technolgy, which is actually not the case.

Nanotechnology is a process of self organising cells that follow a pre programmed change to form a new structure or network, to achieve a specific end result. In the cleaning industry this has taken the form of protective coatings which make different surfaces less absorbant to new soil and easy to clean.
Such coatings can be applied to textiles, ceramics, stone ,and glass to name a few.

Nano Technology is used in a variety of products and systems around world.

I hope this clarifies the subject.

Best regards Nick

garyj

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2005, 11:41:08 am »
You are right Nick, I don't have a clue what this is all about, but from what I've been reading, neither do the experts.

My last paragraph does say, if this is complete rubbish then delete it. Even Ron thinks I'm barking mad.

But, there are a lot of people out there now going around saying " I use the latest chemical, it alters the polymer structure of your carpet", perhaps Doug can help out here as he used to be in a similar line of work, whereas my background is in graphic design. Is it a good thing to be going around changing the molecular structure of carpet fibres, and what effect does it have on the human body? I did read somewhere that solutions is safe enough to drink, is that right?


Spiceman

  • Posts: 48
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2005, 12:13:47 pm »
Hey Gary,

Sometimes it dosn't do any harm to stop and think, I have been trying some of Solutions products and have been very impressed.
But to be honest i still don't think i have a total grasp of how they do what they do.
I thought nano technology was advertising hype ... like the kind you see on shampoo advets etc. So i was surprised to read your comments.
I must admit that one step and solutions products do seem rather too good to be true and would like to read what some of our more eniment contributors have to say on the matter.
John

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2005, 01:52:58 pm »
Hi Guys,

Quick lunchbreak so here goes.

Useful link www.wisegeek.com/what-is-molecular-nanotechnology.htm

It appears there are many different interpretations of what is nanotechnology.

Molecular nanotechnogy which is the sci fi bit is not expected to become possible until 2010- 2020.

Nano means ten to the power of minus nine or 0.0000000001 and this is the size of many molecules , hence the nanotechnology.

When I was involved in the adhesives industry where film forming is crucial,  as it is with protectors,   one of the important propreties was the particle size.

So that when the water evaporated the bits of adhesive/polymer were of  the correct size so that they could come in contact and join together.

If you imagine 100 humans in a hall who wanted to join together to form a matrix then they would have to be of the correct size to be able to link.

If they were too small they could not all link and if too big they would get in each others way.

Hope this helps , back to work now

Cheers

Doug



Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2005, 07:16:43 pm »
I could not be botherd to read or that Goblekook.

If it cleans Carpets Fine

We are all going to die.

I am confident products from major suppliers are safe.


ABLECLEAN

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2005, 07:34:56 pm »
Ron, When are you going to get your keyboard fixed. All your keys are in the wrong places and your words are all mucking fuddled.

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2005, 07:46:17 pm »
Garyj, I thought it was Ron who was the donut on here, but quite clearly its you. lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Paul
Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2005, 09:25:12 pm »
How can he type such long posts with those sleeves buckled behind his back  ???

Copy & Paste merchant..............but should read and comprehend first  ::)................that sort of thing could make me lose all respect for him  :o

garyj

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2005, 11:26:06 pm »
 :o, wot me, copy and paste, never. I typed that off the top of my head  ::)

Oh well, at least I've got Ron & Chris in agreement on something.

  COOKOOO

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2005, 09:35:06 pm »
I DO WISH THAT MY NAME SHOULD NOT BE BROUGHT UP IN TH ::)E TEXT THAT I may be conceived as a loony. i am a cleanitup god. and would like the respect to go with it. i dont wish to bring into the scripturs i am writing now, but lets be honest im the best thing to hit this forum for a long time. i would like you to refer to some of my classic bits of info that i have passed on. perhaps a little praise from those of you less humble would be nice.
listen,learn.and benefit. try. reward.and love, peace harmony.feng shui. and all that. it improves ones selling .to ones customers.reap THE HARVEST WHILST YOU CAN. and try to crush the opposition.

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2005, 09:39:47 pm »
I DO WISH THAT MY NAME SHOULD NOT BE BROUGHT UP IN TH ::)E TEXT THAT I may be conceived as a loony. i am a cleanitup god. and would like the respect to go with it. i dont wish to bring into the scripturs i am writing now, but lets be honest im the best thing to hit this forum for a long time. i would like you to refer to some of my classic bits of info that i have passed on. perhaps a little praise from those of you less humble would be nice.

PMSL  :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2005, 10:02:48 pm »
as a newbie allergeesie . you wont do better than to follow me as an example. 8)
listen,learn.and benefit. try. reward.and love, peace harmony.feng shui. and all that. it improves ones selling .to ones customers.reap THE HARVEST WHILST YOU CAN. and try to crush the opposition.

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2005, 10:12:46 pm »
ron you arnt exactly a old hand on here, we all no that any one can become a god , simply by posting on here .
 now in your case the amount of drival you post, its no suprise you reached the dizzy height of a god.
 and know you not the best thing to happen on here for a while, a far better , self conceited  c.c was on here before you, And we all know who he was , He talked a load of b----ks too, the difference been , he had the guts , to admit he talked a load of crap, and was deliberatly trying to be controversial.
   one other thing , i bet all the girls love you ;)   bet they get really turned on bye your stimulating conversations about yourself,
  or do you just admire yourself infront of the mirror
  geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2005, 10:24:23 pm »
yes you seem to have worked out im a babe magnet.theres still a chance you may redeem yourself
listen,learn.and benefit. try. reward.and love, peace harmony.feng shui. and all that. it improves ones selling .to ones customers.reap THE HARVEST WHILST YOU CAN. and try to crush the opposition.

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2005, 10:42:42 pm »
Ron you are a t****r and are not the best knowledged carpet cleaner, but I am starting to warm to you.

Regards

paul
Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

The Great One

  • Posts: 12673
Re: This could be serious!!
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2005, 11:54:21 am »
I read this post with great interes.....ZZZzzzzzzzzz.....zzzzz

Regards

martin 8)...ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz