[Pj]

Has not been banned
Is not being banned
Will not be banned
Will never be banned!
 

Safe use of ladders GUIDELINES have increased, are being increased, will be increased.
Why?
1) Because H&S is increasing
2) Because people using ladders don't use (un)common sense


There is a lot of misinformation about ladders.  To say that ladders are going to be banned is like saying hammers and screwdrivers are going to be banned because they're dangerous.
All tools are dangerous in the hands of irresponsible idiots!

There, I feel better now!

[martinsadie]

good to get it off your chest 

[daz1977]

the thing with H and S is that they let u read the rules how u want, and then when a accident come down on, saying this is what the law says

this is what the reg say on ladders

SCHEDULE 6
Regulation 8(e)



REQUIREMENTS FOR LADDERS


     1. Every employer shall ensure that a ladder is used for work at height only if a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and -


(a) the short duration of use; or

(b) existing features on site which he cannot alter.


     2. Any surface upon which a ladder rests shall be stable, firm, of sufficient strength and of suitable composition safely to support the ladder so that its rungs or steps remain horizontal, and any loading intended to be placed on it.

     3. A ladder shall be so positioned as to ensure its stability during use.

     4. A suspended ladder shall be attached in a secure manner and so that, with the exception of a flexible ladder, it cannot be displaced and swinging is prevented.

     5. A portable ladder shall be prevented from slipping during use by -



(a) securing the stiles at or near their upper or lower ends;

(b) an effective anti-slip or other effective stability device; or

(c) any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness.


     6. A ladder used for access shall be long enough to protrude sufficiently above the place of landing to which it provides access, unless other measures have been taken to ensure a firm handhold.

     7. No interlocking or extension ladder shall be used unless its sections are prevented from moving relative to each other while in use.

     8. A mobile ladder shall be prevented from moving before it is stepped on.

     9. Where a ladder or run of ladders rises a vertical distance of 9 metres or more above its base, there shall, where reasonably practicable, be provided at suitable intervals sufficient safe landing areas or rest platforms.

     10. Every ladder shall be used in such a way that -



(a) a secure handhold and secure support are always available to the user; and

(b) the user can maintain a safe handhold when carrying a load unless, in the case of a step ladder, the maintenance of a handhold is not practicable when a load is carried, and a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of a stepladder is justified because of -


(i) the low risk; and

(ii) the short duration of use.

[daz1977]

the bit in bold, is the bit they will probably get you on by saying could of used a pole

i feel that saying ladders are banned is a way of justifying why a few pay a fortune for there wfp systems,  they might fell like they are better people because they have a wfp rather than trad,

[idealrob]

Never be banned is quite a statement,

But point 5, a, b , c are goog but how many who moan about h & S and WFP because of the massive cost lol, stick to these points, 2% maybe even tho its been law for more than 5 years and it saves lives.
I rest my case, all the big mouths always keep quiet on these points, when they know they are wrong and cant answer, or come up with only aplies over so many metres etc, which it doesnt

idealrob

[ivesonswc]

hi

To ban ladders for 1st floor window cleaning their would need to be a reasonable all year round safer option to replace the ladder wfp is safer in the summer but in the winter with water frezzing on the ground plus although wfp pole is safer for the window cleaner what about you client that trips on your hose, plus if we have a water shortage it seems silly to throw 500ltrs of water on the floor

ladders are safe as long as they are used correctly

Now i have said what i wanted to i am gonna run for the hills before i get shoot down bbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[james44]

Never be banned is quite a statement

It`s not really wfp is only another new tool for window cleaning all be it a safer method at times but there are times when even wfp is not practical,

wfp manufacturers would like ladders banned for window cleaning so as they can sell more systems  but wfp is not a complete tool to do away with ladders

There are plenty of safety devices around to make working of ladders safer

[woody1]

Ladders cant be banned to many people would be un employed eg aeriel installers, bt, sky,
just wfp trying to get one over on traditional windys cause they know they are no match when it comes to quality work 

[bumper]

not everybody can aford wfp ,untill the goverment buys evey window cleaner in britain ladders wornt be banned

[idealrob]

To Bumper, it £300 for a full WFP setup, and you call yourself a business man. Its 2010, whats a good set of ladders cost, scrim, wash leather, ladder stopper.
As well as w/c I have a dry cleaning shop and have quarter of a million invested in it, so its about return on investment, we went into this because fomer w/c started w/c, then onto carpet cleaning and the same thing happened. It hasn`t happened yet with dry cleaning yet

idealrob

[daz1977]

from  what the regs say as long as ladders is secure then it is ok, u can use ladder spike to secure it and it will be fine, 

 i can see the same agruement when they say we will need license and nvq in england to work, u will get people saying that the gov aint telling them what they need to work and its the gov gone power crazy,  but these are probably the same people who come on here saying that they have been under cut and we should have a standard price for jobs

[idealrob]

Yes securing a ladder is the right way to go, but what percent of ladder users do this, as I said before 2 %

There are other issues, but securing is a step in the right direction, and HSE has to moniter it

idealrob

[ivesonswc]

hi

sorry but cleaning 1st floor windows using a ladder in a safe manner is fine above 1st floor i would use wfp. i had a demo from ionics years ago on a house back when wfp was new on the market and the guy doing the demo told me that wfp wasn't designed for residential work its designed for clean above 1st floor & 2nd floor.

[idealrob]

Another intelectual reply from a trad, just one question, Why do ionics do 2 to 4 feet poles ?
Answers please on a postcard

idealrob

[woody1]

cause monkeys like you cant use a mop and squeege

[idealrob]

Wrong there I can  use a mop and squeege, we have the biggest job in the north east, about 10,000 windows inside and out, on the outside WFP and inside mop & squuge. We comply by the law, dont risk our life, and been doing so for 35 years.
And can use a wash leather and scrim. altogether now ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

idealrob

[woody1]

there is no law on it and there wont be get over it, some people like tradiional some like to wfp each to there own, and im glad you have such a wonderful contract, at the end off the day when they come and take my ladders saying they are band then i will become a wfp opperative

[bumper]

To Bumper, it £300 for a full WFP setup, and you call yourself a business man. Its 2010, whats a good set of ladders cost, scrim, wash leather, ladder stopper.
As well as w/c I have a dry cleaning shop and have quarter of a million invested in it, so its about return on investment, we went into this because fomer w/c started w/c, then onto carpet cleaning and the same thing happened. It hasn`t happened yet with dry cleaning yet

idealrob

yes it my be 300 pound then you need a van they are more than 300 pound than theres fitting unless i put a couple of house bricks behind it stoping moving who said i was a buissness man im a cowboy who been on dole for 30 years  and comming up to retirment now,carnt learn a dog new tricks

[idealrob]

Woody, you were wrong on the mop & squeege and wrong that there is no law on it and in your words wont be.
Its called the WAHR, and its la, yes law for over 5 years  and its happened and everyone has to abide by it, including you, so dont talk rubbish and post threads that are wrong . Yes wrong again woody, but like all the other people who are wrong on this forum, will probably just not bother replying, and fade into the background.
I make mistakes in life and on this forum, but hold my hands up when wrong, but usully dont make comments that are wrong all the time
So come on woody, how do you comply with the law on ladders, do you even secure them, or like Michael Mills, face a 5 figure court case

idealrob


there is no law on it and there wont be get over it,

[idealrob]

Right again, its their ball and taking it with them and run away and wont admit they are wrong and dont reply

idealrob