[Davindo Cleana]

Could anyone describe how to clean the glass inside a commercial building 20 - 30 feet high -
can you do it with WFP if that's not a stupid guess with all the water  -
or does it have to be cherry picker or scaff tower

thanks

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;)poles and ettore back flips easy way to do it

[windows_chepstow]

;)poles and ettore back flips easy way to do it

Terry,

You're a black-belt window cleaner - 5th Dan. 

I'm sort of inbetween white and yellow at the moment and if I tried to clean 20 - 30 foot windows with a traditional pole; I'd leave them worse looking than before I started.

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;)well,practice grasshopper,snacth the squeegee from my hand,the wise ones can show you,you cannot buy wise,comes over many years ;)but always happy to show the way

[windows_chepstow]

Terry,

I only have one high-large inside job.  It's an old-fashioned school, converted into a residential house.

I take my ladders inside - use ladder mitts to save the paint work and a towel to protect the carpets.

Being a Geordie I always opt for brute strength and ignorance in favour of skill and intelligence.

It's the way of the Geordie!

Sorry Sensei.

[Davindo Cleana]

Interesting possibilities - Terry's sounds safe but I don't reckon on being able to control the thing
As a fellow Geordie I ought to be swayed by Windows though I would need a footer, cos this place houses some of the most mischevious young uns in Geordieland

[dai]

I used to do a church a bit like this job, I too used ladders and a backflip in the all in one position. You only have half the drips using it that way. Dai

[Davindo Cleana]

I might have to venture into backflipland - forgive my ignorance but is that where you have an applicator and squeegee in one

[Davindo Cleana]

Sorry if someones replying to the backflip query - I just checked them out on Wintecs - do they fit into the boab

[rosskesava]

I tried a backflip and the first thing I noticed was it was heavy (compared to a squeegie) and I was always pressing on the glass to hard.

Worse than that, I couldn't see the squeegie when sqeegieing so I wasn't always next to the edge of the glass which when doing commercial jobs where speed is vital, slowed me down because I then had to detail.

I think if every night for a few weeks I practised on my own windows the backflip would be invaluable.

Thr trouble is, I'm too lazy to do that.


Cheers

[Marc's on the Glass, LLC]

Commercial makes up 95% of my work.  I have several accounts that go 25 feet high.  I do them all with a pole and squeegie.

Important:  If this glass is not one-piece (2 or 3 sections divided by frames), you will need a ledger most likely.  That's a squeegie handle with a long goose neck.  Otherwise you won't be able to finish at the bottom very well, especially up really high.

I don't like using the backflip.  Too many issues.  Mostly because I use about 4 different size channels when cleanng, carrying them all in my bucket.  Also, not great for pivoting.  To save time, I scrub as many windows as I can with my pole.  Then, I put my scrubber in my BOAB and quick grab my squeegie and go back and take the solution off.  Doing this way, you really don't lose any time to the backflip.

[rosskesava]

Hi Marc's On the Glass

Very interesting posting. You have given me food for thought especially about different size channels.

I use just one size at the moment and I do one large paine at a time.

In fact, and I've added this later, why the hell didn't I think of that before? That's a great idea. Thanks.

Cheers

[dai]

I have been using the backflip since wintecs first sold them. It does take perseverence to master them but they do really work as a single pass tool. You have no problem in this hot weather with glass drying before you can finish sqeegying, you don't have problems in windy weather with blowback over the blade either. Since we learned about dog earing our channels I do far less detailing, I find I have to do more if the pane is narrower than the blade, but hey! you do it so much quicker you can detail and still save time.
A sigle pass tool is not really a good description, you can't do that. You have to ensure that you have plenty of water at the top of the pane before you can zig zag down in the normal way, this may mean that you go over the top of the pane 2 or 3 times. I have a van full of applicators and sqeegies of all sizes, but I use the backflip on 95 % of my work. I can do at least 2 houses on one dip of the bucket, thats a saving too. I use 1 x15ltr bucket a day and top it up once with a large milk container of water.
Hey Ross. do you find the rinse aid mixture makes any detailing so much easier?
I was talking to the guy that fixed my dishwasher today. He said that rinse aid makes water wetter. He said take some when you go for a shower, soap up your arm and pour on a drop of rinse aid and see what happens. I think I'll pass on that one. DAI

[Davindo Cleana]

thats pretty interesting Dai - might have to give the backflip a try - i am particularly slow and that might help to disguise/compensate for the lack of speed

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;)with the back flip always use new or as good as rubbers,very important,its made heavy for good reason,up at say 25ft you do not have to put pressure on the backflip does it for you,it takes a lot of practice,I have had some 30 years,its all easy for me,another good tool is the side swipe or flat head  as called,you get from unger,a great tool lets you clean windows above you head in front of,and the head goes left to right,a must in your bucket,you can get smaller backflips,I would use this way rather then use a ladder any day,but you need to practice with this tool before you go out and charge,its a mess if you cannot use it,but it is a great tool

[Marc's on the Glass, LLC]

Three questions:

First, is there a backflip with a goose-neck handle?  Otherwise, you cannot squeegie to the very bottom of a deep framed window that is high.

Second, how do you deal with narrow panes?  No one wants to carry 2 or 3 different sized backflips with them.

Third, how do you work around obstacles.  Backflips don't have pivoting handles (to my knowledge) so you can only pull them straight down.  What if straight down is in a spot that you cannot stand in?

I agree that the backflip is a decent tool to use, but it has limited practical application to the job.  It is not nearly versatile enough for me to even consider using.  I still do not recommend it.

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;)are! thats the secret to being a pro,why not carry a set of backflips ???we do,tools of the trade,an electrician will only carry one screw driver,dont fink so,a plumber will carry only one size pipe, I dont think back flips come in the neck size,but you can use sideswipes flat head squeegees,they are a must in anyones
bucket,I have some thirty years behind me I can tell you what works, ;)its just practice

[Paul Coleman]

Three questions:

First, is there a backflip with a goose-neck handle?  Otherwise, you cannot squeegie to the very bottom of a deep framed window that is high.

Second, how do you deal with narrow panes?  No one wants to carry 2 or 3 different sized backflips with them.

Third, how do you work around obstacles.  Backflips don't have pivoting handles (to my knowledge) so you can only pull them straight down.  What if straight down is in a spot that you cannot stand in?

I agree that the backflip is a decent tool to use, but it has limited practical application to the job.  It is not nearly versatile enough for me to even consider using.  I still do not recommend it.

Yes it does have limitations but there are ways around some of them that I use occasionally.
To take your comments in sequence:-
1)  I don't think that there is a goose necked backflip but a cranked joint might help in some of the situations where you would need it.  I have to admit, I've not actually tried this myself but am trying to imagine it.
2)  With narrow panes, I don't use a backflip.  I use a "swiv-loc" applicator and a very small squeegee.  You have to be quick at changing them over on a hot day  .  As an extra note which has nothing to do with your comment, I use a swic-loc applicator in normal use too as I find it is eaier on my wrist.
3) Do it in two goes by using swic-loc applicator followed by swiv-loc squeegee.  On one job, I have a large arched window (sounds like playschool) that has to be done by extension pole.  I use the swic loc attachments for it.  It's not perfect but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing.  It can be tricky on a very hot day though due to fast drying.

[Marc's on the Glass, LLC]

That's my point... you're using different tools in those cases.

In my work (95% commercial), I could only use the backflip on 30% of the glass.  It is a good tool for some jobs, but not most.

[rosskesava]

This is such an interesting topic.

I'm still trying to get used to a backflip but the problem is that to get to know how to use one to it's best advantage that for our commercial work, I work much slower which we can't do as time is money.

I thought to try do do my own windows in the evenings on the ground floor with a backflip when I get home but to be honest, I can't be bothered and it's now become one of those things which is an always 'tomorrow' things.

In all honesty, I can't see how a backflip is quicker but if some one like Terry Burrows says so then it must be true.

How long is the learning curve?

Also, Dai's thing about rinse aid, it does work. Try it. I'll also think I'll pass on trying it in the shower.

Cheers