[jonnyald]

yesterday i had to go to about 9 metres up and i normally work lower,alone, so this time i got a friend to foot this ladder

but it got me thinking,
- how should he do the footing? and does it really do anything .  yes i know it felt nice to have a mate watching out for passersby , but  my mate kept asking
  -what should he do if ladder starts to slip.?  should he foot by putting one of his feet on the bottom rung ? or just stand on the ground and brace his arms to the ladder 

[chopsie]

When I used to foot ladders I stood on the bottom rung,I often wondered myself if it did anything  But with 18 stone on it I suppose it helped 

[rich fraser]

I cleaned traditional for 8 years and if footing i would stand with my feet on the floor with my toes against the feet of the ladder. Always wearing a decent pair of boots of course, but this has never failed me on any suface.
Hope this helps

[jonnyald]

I cleaned traditional for 8 years and if footing i would stand with my feet on the floor with my toes against the feet of the ladder. Always wearing a decent pair of boots of course, but this has never failed me on any suface.
Hope this helps

cheers, id never have thought of that .     i did look my mate in the eye before i went up the ladder and said "dont lose your bottle whatever u do "

[paul rulton]

I cleaned traditional for 8 years and if footing i would stand with my feet on the floor with my toes against the feet of the ladder. Always wearing a decent pair of boots of course, but this has never failed me on any suface.
Hope this helps

thats the best & the only way i would foot a ladder always send the boy up
well thats wot i did, as i was just over 18st & he was only 13st get up there m8, u will alrite lol

[trevor perry]

I cleaned traditional for 8 years and if footing i would stand with my feet on the floor with my toes against the feet of the ladder. Always wearing a decent pair of boots of course, but this has never failed me on any suface.
Hope this helps

this is definately the correct way but not what the geniuses at loughborough university recomend they say you should stand on the bottom rung but anyone with any proper common sense will do as above and stand on floor with your toes against the feet of the ladder.

[martinsadie]

I cleaned traditional for 8 years and if footing i would stand with my feet on the floor with my toes against the feet of the ladder. Always wearing a decent pair of boots of course, but this has never failed me on any suface.
Hope this helps

thats the only way,i have spikes on so the footers foot goes just under the ladder and up against the spikes,standing on the bottom rung wont stop a slide

[barry mallett]

best way is to get your mate to climb up behind you and stand directly under you two tradders  for the price of one

[michael papworth]

I cleaned traditional for 8 years and if footing i would stand with my feet on the floor with my toes against the feet of the ladder. Always wearing a decent pair of boots of course, but this has never failed me on any suface.
Hope this helps

this is definately the correct way but not what the geniuses at loughborough university recomend they say you should stand on the bottom rung but anyone with any proper common sense will do as above and stand on floor with your toes against the feet of the ladder.

Sorry to tell you this, but you are wrong and the geniuses at Loughborough university are right.

If you do a full analysis of the forces on a ladder, you'll find that having someone stand on the bottom rung is much safer than having someone stand holding the ladder.

It's too complex to explain just now, but it's a standard problem from the "A" level physics syllabus and (I think) Applied Maths A level syllabus. Find yourself someone who's done A2 Physics or Applied Maths and they can explain it.

It's one of those situations where common sense gives you the wrong answer.

And if you'd like to get a flavour of just how complex the maths can get, have a look at: http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/courses/gladney/phys150/lectures/lecture_dec_03_1999.html

This problem concerns just a ladder leaning against a wall. It gets more complex still when you consider a person at various points on a ladder. It's more complex still when you consider two people on a ladder.

But the maths shows quite clearly that the safest place for the second person to be is standing with all their weight on the bottom rung.

[Ian Lancaster]

For once I disagree with you Wally,  the maths may well prove your point, but what about the co-efficient of friction between the ladder feet and the point of contact?

Under normal conditions there is no need for a 'ladder footer' as the rubber ladder feet will not slip on a dry firm surface such as concrete, brick etc.

Introduce a film of moisture and the situation changes completely.  No amount of downwards pressure will alter the co-efficient.  In this case you need a horizontal resistance (the ladder footers feet) to arrest the outward (away from the wall) tendency for the ladder to overcome the co-efficient and start to slide.

Admittedly the ladder footers feet are also subject to the same problem, so perhaps footing is a useless exercise anyway.

I always look for some sort of solid 'restrictor' - wall, hollow in the surface, edge of raised paving slab etc which is not affected by the above.

[michael papworth]

You are exactly right about the coefficient of friction being the limiting factor.  Also, if you look at the link, you'll notice that it does include the coefficient of friction - it's a part of the analysis.

The maximum possible horizontal resistance force is equal to the vertical force due to (i) the weight of the ladder and (ii) the weight of the people on the ladder and their distance from the foot multiplied by the coefficient of friction.

The coefficient of friction for most materials is between 0.3 and 0.7. And you are right again, dampness would reduce this.

Footing isn't a useless exercise, but it's not the ultimate answer either. You're right that some form of mechanical constraint is better.

But the whole point of the post is that footing the ladder is done by standing on the bottom rung, not by standing at the bottom and holding it.

[chopsie]

well bugger me,sounds like i did something right for a change!!

[michael papworth]

well bugger me,sounds like i did something right for a change!!

There you go, mate. Eighteen stone of pure genius!!!!

[chopsie]

sorry wally,got you mixed up with wizard,thats why i deleted question,But googled it and surgical,metholated and rubbing alcohol are the same thing....apparently

[trevor perry]

I cleaned traditional for 8 years and if footing i would stand with my feet on the floor with my toes against the feet of the ladder. Always wearing a decent pair of boots of course, but this has never failed me on any suface.
Hope this helps

this is definately the correct way but not what the geniuses at loughborough university recomend they say you should stand on the bottom rung but anyone with any proper common sense will do as above and stand on floor with your toes against the feet of the ladder.

Sorry to tell you this, but you are wrong and the geniuses at Loughborough university are right.

If you do a full analysis of the forces on a ladder, you'll find that having someone stand on the bottom rung is much safer than having someone stand holding the ladder.

It's too complex to explain just now, but it's a standard problem from the "A" level physics syllabus and (I think) Applied Maths A level syllabus. Find yourself someone who's done A2 Physics or Applied Maths and they can explain it.

It's one of those situations where common sense gives you the wrong answer.

And if you'd like to get a flavour of just how complex the maths can get, have a look at: http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/courses/gladney/phys150/lectures/lecture_dec_03_1999.html

This problem concerns just a ladder leaning against a wall. It gets more complex still when you consider a person at various points on a ladder. It's more complex still when you consider two people on a ladder.

But the maths shows quite clearly that the safest place for the second person to be is standing with all their weight on the bottom rung.

  easy to prove, put a ladder on an ice rink i will go up it with someone footing it the way i said next you go up it with someone footing the way loughborough university says and then i will phone you the ambulance, i am talking from experience here and not the crap theory they are using, whats more if you want a little bet on the matter then the loser can donate the money to sport relief.
  let me give you an ilustration basically when the ladder slips it is sliding like a sledge would on a slipy surface now next time you go sledging how do you prevent the sledge from moving whilst a child climbs on to it the answer is you put your foot against the edge of the sledge if you where to just stand on the sledge then it would just start sliding.

[Martin OFarrell]

Although I'm now a window cleaner, I just thought I'd give you the benefit of my experience as an ex-Firefighter of 22 years service. We always footed ladders with one foot on the bottom round and both hands on sides of the ladder, arms straight. The other foot was flat on the ground with your body weight pushing forward towards the ladder. Not saying this is the definitive method but I reckon the training manuals and instructors must have done some research into the best way of ensuring the safety of the person climbing and working off the ladder.

[daztheger]

For once I disagree with you Wally,  the maths may well prove your point, but what about the co-efficient of friction between the ladder feet and the point of contact?

Under normal conditions there is no need for a 'ladder footer' as the rubber ladder feet will not slip on a dry firm surface such as concrete, brick etc.

Introduce a film of moisture and the situation changes completely.  No amount of downwards pressure will alter the co-efficient.  In this case you need a horizontal resistance (the ladder footers feet) to arrest the outward (away from the wall) tendency for the ladder to overcome the co-efficient and start to slide.

Admittedly the ladder footers feet are also subject to the same problem, so perhaps footing is a useless exercise anyway.

I always look for some sort of solid 'restrictor' - wall, hollow in the surface, edge of raised paving slab etc which is not affected by the above.