[David Barrett]

Hi guys another question that is getting asked all too often but I'm sorry to annoy people and ask it again.

I'm leaving my firm to start on my own and am looking for the best machine on the market at present.  From what I know and can see its between the Scorpion and Airflex, can anyone please offer their opinion and experience on this matter?

Thanks in advance

Dave

[Colin Day]

It's a hard question to answer unless you've used both machines side by side or indeed owned both. As they are both brand new machines, I doubt anyone has owned both.... Maybe I could ask Nick if I could bring the Scorpion up to CCDO for a face off if someone can bring the Airflex up..... We could ask The Stig to test drive them both plus my Advance TV

[richy27]

i wont be there but if you had to put them on the cool wall   the scorpion is so ugly it would have to be un-cool

[Ken Wainwright]

And don't forget about the Altec Dave, or HydraMaster.

There are very few of us who have day in and day out experiences of more than one of these newer top spec machines, so you tend to have a lot of biased opinion.

So, which is best? IMO all of them! My procedures allow me to work with cold water within my own marketplace and my Scorpion XPS works really, really well for me.

One of the benefits for all of these high end machines is longer hose runs. Mine is excellent upto 100', good at 125' and acceptable @150'. These figures are for use with in-van auxilliary tanks. If you use the machine as a porty, you can add about an extra 50ft to these figures.

Now the bug thing for many is the heat issue.  I'm am not a great fan of hot water going though the pump as it can considerably affect durability, so an in-line heater is the way to go. You then have a choice, either on-board or portable. With longer hose runs, heat will be lost between heater and wand. Less of an issue with a TM because of "heat to spare". So it makes sense to position a heater as close to the wand as possible. 25' seems to be the universal acceptance.

The Scorpion is the lightest weight by quite a bit.

I couldn't give a monkey about looks. Designed by an Engineer or by a Designer? I know which I prefer.

All of the suppliers seem to have a good reputation for support/service. I've certainly found that with mine.

So which machine? Everything else being equal, I think you'll be happy with any of the machines as long as the COMPLETE PACKAGE is within your budget. Draw up a list of your choices, look at the geography and decide whether a nearer supplier will be to your advantage.

A brief story.  A colleague bought a Scorpion. He likes heat so later bought an Alltec. Same spec, same components as my Scorp. He worked with me for a day. Remember that my aux. tanks are like adding an extra 50ft of vac hose. He commented that my Scorp "out sucked" his Alltec. Always remember that a typical new machine with new vac motors will always perform one with older vacs. It's called wear and tear, so it's unwise to compare a brand new machine with your older tired piece of kit.

Safe and happy cleaning
The Ken

PS if you intend to do small scale hard floors at sometime, it may be wise to look at a 1200psi machine

[David Barrett]

Thank you Colin, how have you found the performance of your scorpion so far?  I haven't heard much from the scorpion but have heard very goods things about the Airflex.

And i have to agree with you Richard which is why I'm leaning more towards the Airflex.

[David Barrett]

Wow Ken, thank you very much for your very detailed report.  Certainly given me some food for thought.

I have heard that about the vacs on the Alltec not being all that great which is why i hadn't really seen them as an option. 

Guess i've got some serious thinking to do 

[David Barrett]

I will being using a porty for the time being until business has been established when i will then buy a TM.  I think the Hydromaster will be the TM that i buy when i eventually do but for the present time am only looking at porty's. 

Thanks again Ken

[Joe H]

Of the machine mentioned - Alltec, Airflex and Solutions Scorpion I have only used the Scorpion - because I have one. Now it is a backup machine to my Prowler but I use it certainly every month though not every week.

I have had more then a few people come over to Warrington to have a go with it and they went away impressed - it certainly does a good job.

Kens post is very relevant re the heat. There are a few jobs you too to where there is no hot water in the customers taps. I use hot tap water - not too hot cause like Ken I dont like very hot water going thro the pump, and have an inline heater which works very well. If you can only get cold water then it is easy to turn the inline heater on, direct to flow back to the clean tank and it will get heat in the main tank to boost the heater. Whilst the machine is doing that you can do your prespray, aggitation and set hoses up.
If you thinking thats long winded, well its just about the same as putting water in a tank with an inbuilt heater and waiting for it to warm up.

As for looks - Ninja looks like a dustbin, Alltec like a ice cream cart, cant think of anything off hand for the Airflex.
Point is and I have said this before, no customer has looked at the Scorpion and said thats an ugly machine, but many have looked at the carpet and said that looks lovely and clean. Thats what they pay me for, thats why I spend money on the right stuff.

And Ed Valentine (the maker of the machine in the US), Nick Vousden-White from Solutions and John Bolton (a clever guy who has helped with development) are top guys in my book.

You could do with trying them all really - but listening to those who have used them is good also.

[Ken Wainwright]

Dave

I wasn't infering that the vacs on the Alltec, or any other machine, are inferior to another. The point I was trying to make was that the machine design is an important performance factor as well as the components, along with the age of the components.

Having said that, I believe that there are at least two different Lamb Amteck 3 stage vac motors used in the UK. I think they are 1200 and 1400 watts.  My Scorpion has the more powerful motors.

Safe and happy cleaning
The Ken

[David Barrett]

Joe,
Thank you very much for your input on this subject, a lot of food for thought.  I really can't decide between the scorpion and airflex now.  I like the weight and size of the scorpion but feel the Airflex comes with a better package.  Need to sit down with all specs for both in from of me really.

Ken,
Please don't believe that i was insinuating for one moment that you were, this is my own personal opinion and not  one that i widely circulate.   

But thanks again to all who have helped with advice, i'm hoping to be welcomed into the industry with open arms. (not to open after all we're competitors!  )

You are all a great compliment to this forum.

[Simon@arenaclean]

Read the Airflex turbo thread below, Nigel_W has owned both, email him.

[David Barrett]

Thanks Simon, i will email Nigal straight away.

[richie]

The fact that Safeclean have dropped the Scorpion and now buy the Airflex must mean something.

Richie.

[Len Gribble]

See Nilfisk do a combination machine about 1100psi so would have thought vacs would up for the job as for heat max 54c/130f

Len

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Just like cars the newer models are updates from the older ones some better some not so, the newer machines look more sturdy I'm very surprised cfr haven't made one yet.

Shaun

[derek west]

personally i wouldn't worry about which machine is best, concentrate on learning how to clean properly and you won't go wrong. theres alot of guys on here who have used both with amazing results, and i'm sure there are some guys out theere with truckmounts who couldn't get a better or even equal result to a clued up porti user.

just my opinion.

[robert meldrum]

 Cfr have been producing 1000psi machines for around 15 years but lack the vac' poer for decent hose runs

[Shaun_Ashmore]

That's what I was getting at Robert, image a 3 vac cfr, you could run it from the van with no big water tank just a small one to keep replenishing the water.

Shaun

[Neil Pratt]

I've got both, and whilst I've been very happy with the Scorpion, since buying my Airflex, the Scorpion doesn't get a look in.
IMHO the Airflex has been better all round, perhaps only slightly, performance wise, but design, ease of use, ease of maintenance, noise levels and appearance, all score higher with me.

[David Barrett]

Thank you very much to all who have aided me with this query.

Dave