[nevil]

I normally try not to pre vac. It's not that I don't think it improves the overall process. It's just that I think that unless you have a lot of very wealthy client, people prefer to do it themselves. Then pay you to do the specialized bit that they can't do.

Anyway. I went to clean a woven wool rug last week and spent two hours dry vaccing. God I was so sick of my vacuum cleaner when I was done. The rug was only about 2m x 3m but it was a case of the condition it was in dictated what I did to tackle it. The head housekeeper was very embarrassed when I showed her what was coming out of it. She was cleaning it every day but all she had was a cylinder type vac. Although it was a particularly pleasing result, I still intend to encourage most folks to do the vacuuming before I arrive.

[deep-cleaningukltd]

Hi Nevil,

Are you TM or porty?

If TM I can, maybe, understand not doing a pre-vac. For me (Alltec 1200 triple vac)(with auto pump out) pre-vacing is part of my routine. I admit some carpets don't give-up a lot of dry soil, mostly where there is a house proud lady who vac's frequently. Other's however almost fill the (Sebo) bag.

Personal opinion ofcourse but for me it's just another part of the "show" for the client. Longer on the job perhaps but where else do we get paid our rates for doing the Hoovering.

Adi

[nevil]

Hi Adi.
I'm a TMer. Not that it makes any difference.

I should never have started this one. Big can of worms. I agree that pre vac improves the overall job we do. But to me it's all about choice. The customers choice. And we are trying to please them aren't we. To me that means valuing their choices.

The customer can have what ever they want. It's their money to choose what work they pay for with. If you won't allow them to opt out of the vacuuming,  they may well find someone who will. I don't want to loose hard won business because I wouldn't offer them what they wanted.   

Not giving them that choice seems a little immoral to me.

Have you ever tried talking to your customers about what they want? May surprise a few folks. Tin hat on and ready for incoming. 

 

[deep-cleaningukltd]

Hi Nevil

You don't need a tin hat from me. Live and let live imo.

To answer your question though, yes I do talk to customers. I can honestly state I've yet to come across one that has not wanted me to pre-vac. We all have our own routine and if your's does not include vaccing that's not a problem.

I also always visit a new client before booking a job (never price over the phone). I find out exactly what they want and tell them what, if anything, I can do for them. I am often undercut by other CC's in my area and am then invited by the client to match the other quotes. I am often surprised to discover some opposition almost write their quotes on the back of a fAg packet. Usually, not always, after going over again how I will do the job and reminding them ALL my work is guaranteed they go ahead with the booking. You can believe this or not but I'm often told I have given the most professional advice and quote. Have you tried offering this service?

I understand that the basic student, for example, is looking for the cheapest price but they are not my market.

Adi

[nevil]

Hi Nevil

You don't need a tin hat from me. Live and let live imo.

To answer your question though, yes I do talk to customers. I can honestly state I've yet to come across one that has not wanted me to pre-vac. We all have our own routine and if your's does not include vaccing that's not a problem.

I also always visit a new client before booking a job (never price over the phone). I find out exactly what they want and tell them what, if anything, I can do for them. I am often undercut by other CC's in my area and am then invited by the client to match the other quotes. I am often surprised to discover some opposition almost write their quotes on the back of a f*g packet. Usually, not always, after going over again how I will do the job and reminding them ALL my work is guaranteed they go ahead with the booking. You can believe this or not but I'm often told I have given the most professional advice and quote. Have you tried offering this service?

I understand that the basic student, for example, is looking for the cheapest price but they are not my market.

Adi

I have always wondered about the guarantee thing with carpet cleaning. What do you guarantee. That the carpets will be cleaner?

I don't do the cheapest price either. But I find that most people respond better when allowed the choice of what they pay for.

Also from a personal perspective. I find that to vacuum an area really well adds more time to a job than you can get away with charging for. So because most people tell me they prefer to do this part of the process themselves, I happily perform the more profitable part of the operation.     

[markpowell]

dont want to seem ignorant, but what is pre-vaccing

[Joe H]

Did a house couple of weeks ago. Client moving out, removers had just finished when I arrived.
She was vaccing with a Dyson cylinder.
I followed on with the Sebo.  You could hear what I was picking up that the Dyson was'nt, rattling away.
She looked at me, and I said Iam glad you are going ahead of me picking up all the bigger pieces, my upright works better picking up the finer pieces.  She was happy with that and off she went. Made my vaccing life easier that day.
So yes, even if a client vacs regularly, I still reckon there is value in using a "proper" vac ie the Sebo.
Having said that - I dont always pre vac - depends on timescale.

[Stu.Clem]

I once didnt dry vac a load of dog hairs I came across under a setttee - they were a bitch to extract when wet even with me prowler on one hose!!

never again always dry vac unless its a minty mint carpet


Stu

[mark shannon]

Joe I use a Sebo but find Dysons a better Vac but to flimsy to keep in van.

[gwrightson]

Hi Nevil

You don't need a tin hat from me. Live and let live imo.

To answer your question though, yes I do talk to customers. I can honestly state I've yet to come across one that has not wanted me to pre-vac. We all have our own routine and if your's does not include vaccing that's not a problem.

I also always visit a new client before booking a job (never price over the phone). I find out exactly what they want and tell them what, if anything, I can do for them. I am often undercut by other CC's in my area and am then invited by the client to match the other quotes. I am often surprised to discover some opposition almost write their quotes on the back of a f*g packet. Usually, not always, after going over again how I will do the job and reminding them ALL my work is guaranteed they go ahead with the booking. You can believe this or not but I'm often told I have given the most professional advice and quote. Have you tried offering this service?

I understand that the basic student, for example, is looking for the cheapest price but they are not my market.

Adi

I have always wondered about the guarantee thing with carpet cleaning. What do you guarantee. That the carpets will be cleaner?

I don't do the cheapest price either. But I find that most people respond better when allowed the choice of what they pay for.

Also from a personal perspective. I find that to vacuum an area really well adds more time to a job than you can get away with charging for. So because most people tell me they prefer to do this part of the process themselves, I happily perform the more profitable part of the operation.

This guarrantee claim that many advertise really bugs me!, exactly how you can subtantiate some of the claims is beyond me , ok Its marketing I know, but please As I have said in the past how can you "make the carpets like new" "THE CLEANEST YOU HAVE EVER SEEN THEM" "THE MOST THOUROUGH CLEAN EVER" ETC. ETC. imho  a load of dangly,s
Geoff

[Ian Gourlay]

OK

Where is the Scientific Evidence in an average house that Pre Vac leaves the carpet cleaner  than not Pre Vacing
Is this somthing that has become the Script In Training and obviously no one dares to challege the trainer.



Even with The All Singing Dancing Alltec Triple Vac.

Or any other Triple  Vac etc

In some situations it might be wise  not if house is ceaned regularly

Yes I could reply always Pre Vac  go East to West and North to South I always fill my dust  bag and show customer etc bt again where is the Scientific proof this leads to a cleaner carpet

Where has the Evidence been published and evaluated

[nevil]

Did a house couple of weeks ago. Client moving out, removers had just finished when I arrived.
She was vaccing with a Dyson cylinder.
I followed on with the Sebo.  You could hear what I was picking up that the Dyson was'nt, rattling away.
She looked at me, and I said Iam glad you are going ahead of me picking up all the bigger pieces, my upright works better picking up the finer pieces.  She was happy with that and off she went. Made my vaccing life easier that day.
So yes, even if a client vacs regularly, I still reckon there is value in using a "proper" vac ie the Sebo.
Having said that - I dont always pre vac - depends on timescale.

Looking back at that do you think maybe she would have preferred for you not to do it. Or  at least to have had the choice. I know you persuaded her that it was right for you to do it. But if she had been asked in a way that didn't put her in a b'#lsh#t baffles brain type of corner.

In most houses, it seems to me the biggest single issue regarding daily/weekly dry vaccing is whether they actually do it. Dysons hoovers seem perfectly capable of doing the job, providing the customer actually gets of the sofa and does it. Then conversely, if a carpet has been neglected over a long time frame sometimes it's impossible to correct with one good session. Sebo or Henry.   


You have raised a point that to me is at the heart of the pre vac debate. Do the commercial vacuums many of us use do a better job than the Dysons or Hoovers. I have always thought that performance wise the difference is minimal. The main difference being the build quality. Sebo and other brands are more serviceable and last longer. But that advantage is for us to reap the benefit of, not our customers. 

[robert meldrum]

Well, well, well!

Good comment Ian and others. Sure, the THEORY is fine, but in reality the vast majority of carpets have been vacuumed regularly and should not need to be vacuumed before cleaning.

Obviously the logistics of pre vaccing would massively impact on the price you can charge as the time difference is substantial.
If, as some claim, they vacuum north/south, east/west and have to move furniture to vacuum then again to extract, just how much time is being added to each job and is it REALLY adding value, or just allowing you to load your price because it's taking twice as long as necessary.

Those who endorse the practice will want to show the dry soil they remove, or tell about the damage to motors / pumps by failing to vacuum.

I've never had such problems, but there seems to be a lot of posts about pumps and motors having short lives in the past couple of years.  

Carpet cleaners are hired as they do something the house owner can't do themselves ! They CAN however, vacuum their carpets and might be unhappy to be charged for that part of the service, especially if they calculate the time taken  in relation to the price charged.

[deep-cleaningukltd]

Heck Nevil

You were right; can of worms this one.

I repeat. We all have our own routine. If we have regular client's and they have grown to trust us and value what we do then to pre-vac or not pre-vac is of no issue. I am not immoral just because I prefer to pre-vac. Blimey; I have even sorted out some other cowboy's mess for people without any charge to them simply to restore their faith that not everyone will rip them off.

Regarding the guarantee. If, as can happen, a stain comes back after cleaning I will go back and remove it; without charge. I always tell client's that if a mark is permanent before I start cleaning it will still be permanent when I'm finished. I do not state "the best clean you've ever seen or it's free". I regard customer loyalty as my number one priority. We all know finding new client's can be expensive so why would I not want to give the best service I can?

There is a market out there for all. I do not judge anyone on what they do, the client will do that. If they are not happy they will not want us back and will not remember us.
 
Discuss

Adi

[nevil]

Adi.

I've only been off work for one day and am thoroughly bored. So why not try and provoke some debate.

Agree we all find a formula that suits us best, if the customers are happy that's what counts.
The customers are not just paying for our services, they are putting their faith in us as people who will do right by them. If in our own minds we are doing this then we are doing the best we can.

It would be good to hear from more staunch pre vaccers and read some persuasive arguments for pre vaccing. Just to bring some balance to the debate.   

[deep-cleaningukltd]

Agreed.

Upto my armpit's with children and decorating at the mo. Wife (at work) has phoned three times already with more stuff to do. Kid's over excited and in danger of not making it to the 25th.

Apologies if my post seemed a little sharp. Not meant to be. Just a good topic for debate.

Merry xmas to all (even the non pre-vaccers)

Adi

[Joe H]

Did a house couple of weeks ago. Client moving out, removers had just finished when I arrived.
She was vaccing with a Dyson cylinder.
I followed on with the Sebo.  You could hear what I was picking up that the Dyson was'nt, rattling away.
She looked at me, and I said Iam glad you are going ahead of me picking up all the bigger pieces, my upright works better picking up the finer pieces.  She was happy with that and off she went. Made my vaccing life easier that day.
So yes, even if a client vacs regularly, I still reckon there is value in using a "proper" vac ie the Sebo.
Having said that - I dont always pre vac - depends on timescale.

Looking back at that do you think maybe she would have preferred for you not to do it. Or  at least to have had the choice.

Err No.
I know she was moving out and you do end up with a mess, but it was obvious she didnt like cleaning full stop. Skirting boards were deep in dust as well. Her mother came in the later on to clean the kitchen and bathroom.
She appreciated me following her and she said so.
I judged it right.
Apart from that, it is my equipment, she has me in to do a job, and as long as I am not wrecking the place, if something needs doing I am going to do it.

[jsm]

Where is the Scientific Evidence in an average house that Pre Vac leaves the carpet cleaner  than not Pre Vacing
Is this somthing that has become the Script In Training and obviously no one dares to challege the trainer.


I think Ian hit the nail on the head - most of the training is geared to selling chemicals or machine's anyway

on the few ive done I would of come away with with a van few of chem's , sebo's , airmover's , portey and a truckmount , testing kits , gum bazooker - haha etc etc , not knocking those guys but it's not all needed.

I used to test , vac etc in the old days but admit it guy's - all you seem to be doing is putting on a show.
I was lucky at first i hooked up with a very experianced guy who RE- Trained me .

If you cant get carpets clean with a high end porty or truck mount you must be using it on blow instead of suck   !!




Just

[nevil]

  

You just reminded me.

Happy Christmas to all Even Pre vaccers.


My Kids are wound up so much I keep thinking they are going to explode. I actually think they are stressed out. Thank God it's here tomorrow.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

There are obvious times when a prevac is required but in routine situation with a high powered machine I would not pre vac.

We hear a lot about the 'my vac removed more dirt than the customers' but how often have you prevacced and then removed loads more dirt and grit with the CC machine, maybe the vac isn't that powerful afterall

I do think with rugs, where you can turn them over and vac the back, front, back, front makes a difference but on fitted carpets vaccing results are limited.

Cheers

Doug