[richie]

This is the type of debate where knowone is right/wrong.  Personally though i believe that the majority of time pre vac is a waste of time / money.  If the customer has already vacuumed the carpet then the chances are you wont need to.   99% of the time customers will vac not just the parts of the carpet that are walked on but also under the sofas before you get there. Pre vac in my opinion will not make a difference to your quality of clean.  Obviously pre vac is required if the carpet hasnt been vacuumed before you get there and is covered in bits. Everyone has there own way of cleaning carpets. 

Richie.

[Ken Wainwright]

Ultimately, so long as the lady is satisfied her "nest" has been cleaned to her standard, will we have done our job.

This is a statement where I slightly disagree with Adi. Particularly with new customers, I don't try to work to their standards, I work to MY standards and expect to exceed their expectations. This will begin at the time of arrival where I wear shoe covers for the audit, talk through processes, problems, on-the-day requirements etc.  On the day of the clean it will start with wearing indoor shoes, waterproof barrier mat, vaccing to a standard they have never before witnessed and through to the final groom prior to exit.

Always exceed their expectations in every aspect of your presence in their home/office/shop and there is every chance that it will be you called back next year rather than them letting their "fingers do the walking".

As for scientific evidence to support dry vacuuming, I am not aware of any published papers, but Dr Eric Brown of Cleaning Research International, in his book An Introduction to Carpet Cleaning, when writting of dry particulate soil removal prior to spray-extraction cleaning, he writes: ".....For these reasons, it is not acceptable that the carpet cleaner should rely upon the machines of his client. Nor is it acceptable to assume- if spray extraction is to be used - that the vacuum on the extractor will be adequate........."

Anecdotally, when I was cleaning carpets for the then Midland Bank, pre-specification tests were carried out to ascertain the level of soiling in their banking halls (customer areas). A new carpet was fitted in a branch and normal everyday maintenance was carried out by the daily cleaning contractor. After 6 weeks the carpet still looked good, but was uplifted and returned to a lab. for soiling level tests. It was found that, despite daily vacuuming maintenance, that the carpet had DOUBLED it's weight with the extra dry particulate soiling. This soil, after just 6 weeks, was not yet visible, but accelerated wear and fibre abrasion was taking place which would ultimately effect the point whereby the carpet was too "ugly" to be acceptable.

To add to this, my view with woven carpets especially and probably most upholstery fabrics, is that dry particulate will be present in the backing. When the carpet is wet, natural backing yarn fibres will swell which will then grip onto the particulates. Wet cleaning processes are unlikely to remove these locked-in soils. The best way is the dry extraction/vacuuming process with a twin motor vacuum or better still a pile lifter for commercial installations.

Safe and happy cleaning
The Ken

[Joe H]

On occassions, I have used the Envirodri on a dry carpet ie prior to prespray.
I could see the carpet had not been vaccd very well and due to the length of the pile I decided to Enviro it.
The bits that came to the surface was suprising. These easily vaccd away, then it was on with the prespray, aggitation with the Envirodri, short dwell, and extract.
I reckon a much thorough job was done.
If the client can see you using tools of the trade that they have not got, they appreciate the charge we make all the more.

[deep-cleaningukltd]

The Ken,

I agree with your statement re: cleaning to their standard. I realised after posting I had left myself open to potential criticism. Perhaps I should have included the words "at least" to the sentence.

Perhaps a little out of date these days (and I will probably be laughed at by some) but my goal is to do the best job I can for the customer who's paying me their hard earned money. Customer service is all to often forgotten in the rush to get to the next job. If that mean's my spending time pre-vaccing then so be it.

I was taught how to clean carpets by Paul Pearce (The one true God). Paul always pre-vac's. If it's good enough for someone of Paul's experience it's good enough for me.

[Ian Gourlay]

Paul admits a lot of what he does is putting on a show.

Ken has come close with  his evidence from Dr Brown but that book is now quite old and is still not a Scientfic Study

Just an opinion

[Jim_77]

I'm sure anyone who's used a Royal upright vac will agree that they vibrate an astonishing amount of dry soil out of an up-turned rug onto the surface below.

Now do that on a carpet the right way up... oops I've beaten all the dirt down into the backing   Just another viewpoint/theory but who's to say it's not right?  Could Pre-vaccing actually be counter-productive?  There are countless arguments for and against anything.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say (very apt for this time of the year, burp! ).  We all know when we've finished a carpet clean if it's a good job or not, or whether we could have done better, and I'd say that the greater % of us would do something about it if we were making a balls of it.

Dr Brown is a wise man, and very knowledgeable.  But recently a different type of doctor prescribed beconase nasal spray to my father in a bungled attempt to cure the complaint which turned out to be cancer growing in his throat.  I'm sure he followed his text book down to the last letter :

What sort of extraction equipment is Dr Brown referring to?  His expertise in the industry is rooted in the times of single vac portable machinery.  Problem is, when you've published material saying one thing, it's not easy to make a U-turn is it!

Lots of stuff makes sense on paper, you can follow a flow chart to diagnose a problem, and there are many "right ways" to do many things which have been proven in some way at some point in time.  Theory is theory, but what happens in the real world can vary somewhat!

Time moves on, people thought the early aviation pioneers were a bunch of wackos but now look at us flying round the world in our thousands.

The only true test is when we keep putting smiles on faces, retaining customers, generating referrals and putting honourably earned money in the bank.

Have a happy new year everyone, doing it however you feel is best for you 

[Ian Gourlay]

Guy's. We are, are we not, offering a service. The customer (remember them) is the person who will decide if the service we offer is acceptable. The majority of my customers are women. The first hurdle is getting through the door to do the audit and explain what and how we will do the job. Let's face it, it is  the lady of the house who will decide who will get the job. How many, and there will be some, go to visit wearing a grubby pair of shoe's with a ciggy hanging out of your mouth?

These "ladies" know how to clean. If you don't agree I challenge you to tell your next customer that she hasn't got a clue; will you get the job? As professionals we will have our own view on the rights or wrongs of pre-vacuuming. Ultimately, so long as the lady is satisfied her "nest" has been cleaned to her standard, will we have done our job. The value of that job will be decided by the customer.

Regarding scientific evidence, if proved or disproved, will we take the report along to show the customer, I think not; just as we don't show one detergent against another. The customer assumes we know what we are doing.

When DUSTMITES were  the fashion  Dr Manders report was taken along

[deep-cleaningukltd]

Morning Ian,

Quote from Jim: "The only true test is when we keep putting smiles on faces, retaining customers, generating referrals and putting honourably earned money in the bank".

Quote from Paul Pearce: "The more diligent the pre-vacuuming, the better the end result".

Quote from me: "my goal is to do the best job I can for the customer who's paying me their hard earned money".

Adi.