[Moderator David@stives]

I thought it was a loaded question

Not at all! But now you've got me thinking! Were you up for getting onto the Fed committee at some stage a while back?

Only in certain peoples imagination

   It wasn't a loaded question; honest!  But I remember looking at the Fed and really all I would want from them is the use of their logo for my stationery; and the Feds is a logo no-one outside of the window cleaning community really recognises.  I only know there's a Federation of Window Cleaners because I use the internet and frequent a window cleaning forum!

So if I wanted a logo, I may as well just use the Guild's logo, like me; it's cheap! 

Depends what you want out of window cleaning really.

It doesnt matter if managers havent heard of the fwc, your cert will tell them its a government recognised trade association when you present it with your quotation pack.

A question you see on Tender forms etc,  more and more of is " what trade associations do you belong to ?

[Tosh]

Cheers, Dave, so there we have it.  I've never seen a 'real' tender form before, and if I'm ever asked that question I'll stick down FWC and apply for membership straight away.

Until then I'll save my money; the FWC is obviously just for the big boys and a waste of time for us normal shiners.

[Nathanael Jones]

Tosh,.. if you join the Guild before the 31st of December you're in with a chance to win a website,....

[matt]

Cheers, Dave, so there we have it.  I've never seen a 'real' tender form before, and if I'm ever asked that question I'll stick down FWC straight away.

its what other do 

[bluez]

Dave, does the fact that the fed is better (in your opinion) make the Guild a bad idea?

I dont understand your antipathy towards it, I can of course understand that you yourself might not be interested in joining, thats everyone's perogotive, but why do you feel the need to be outwardly negative about it? Most people who dismiss something as not useful, move on and ignore it. I dont have a use for the FED at the moment (nothing against it, just not for me right now) but I am not on here every time I see it mentioned to shoot it down.

It is begining to look like you have personal issues with someone or some other agenda because from reading your other posts over the last few years you do not usually come across as someone who would be against something for the sake of it.

Its £20 for some stickers and logos at the moment, if you never got anything else from it, its still not exactly a rip off is it.

Whats the big issue?

 

[Moderator David@stives]

bluez

Its exactly that £20 for some stickers and logo's,

No issue with it as long as it doesnt pretend to be something its not.

[Nathanael Jones]

bluez

Its exactly that £20 for some stickers and logo's,

No issue with it as long as it doesnt pretend to be something its not.

I thought what the Guild was is quoted very eloquently in reply 7 of this thread. What do you think we are "Pretending" to be cranky Dave?

[Moderator David@stives]

 Cramky, Me ? never

     Promote improved working practices and conditions for all window cleaners.
•      To promote professional conduct by our members at all times.
•      To ensure that our members are adequately insured for your protection.
•      To help customers make a better choice when choosing a cleaner.
•      To promote higher standards of health and safety.
•      To provide information and help to window cleaners.
•      To furnish new and up to date cleaning and safety methods to our members.
•      To highlight the need for cleaners to adapt to economic and architectural challenges.
•      To promote the need to exceed our customers expectations.
•      To raise standards within the industry.
   

Nat

To me its all words, no substance,

Please explain how you are raising standards in the industry ?  Do you liaise with the hse etc

do you provide your members with hse advice ? apart from advising how you climb over balconies.

Do you attend hse meetings to discuss the way forward in the industry ?

Do you distribute hse guidance leaflets ?

To me, all I can see is you give £20.00, get some stickers, a logo and get a bit of dodgy advice about industry best practice.

I might be wrong, but thats the way i see it

[Steve CM]

To me, all I can see is you give £20.00, get some stickers, a logo and get a bit of dodgy advice about industry best practice.

I might be wrong, but thats the way i see it

thats the way i see it also

[bluez]

bluez

Its exactly that £20 for some stickers and logo's,

No issue with it as long as it doesnt pretend to be something its not.

Dave, I would describe where the Guild is at as "Aspirational"  as opposed to  "Pretence" at present, and while I share your misgiving about its ability to reach its lofty aspirations based on the financial contributions of its members I say give a guy an even break. All of our businesses have at some point been aspirational as opposed to substantial at some point or other, that didnt make us pretenders.

The Guilds aspirations have not been fulfilled as of yet and may never be, but in the interest of fairness maybe some encouragement to guys who are trying to do something that has little or no benifit to themselves (unless their are some ego trips involved, not seen any evidence of that yet) would be better than just knocking it.

Why dont you stump up £20 and make your points constructive from inside the tent instead of picking at it from outside. I am sure the Guild would welcome the assistance of your input and if it wasnt moving in the right way for you then dont renew your Fee next year.

This year will be a big challange for the Guild, 1st year is honeymoon now it needs to begin to produce some substance to match the Words as you rightly point out.

[Moderator David@stives]

bluez

I never set out to put the guild down, they make claims that i and many others can see through, and i just argue the point, which usually results in someone taking offence. Then i get roped in explaining further.

I can't see Nat's reply to the above questions

Read my first reply to this post

[bluez]

Dave
Thats fair enough, maybe I have missed some of those posts, it does read a bit like you are very against it recently though.

I am a member but I am not involved in its running in any way, it does appear to me to be a good idea which is why I paid my money, of course there are issues like in any group particularly a new one but if it achieves 20% of what it set out to do it would be a positive thing for its members.

I wont post any more on it dont want to bore anyone

[GWCS]

Dave
Thats fair enough, maybe I have missed some of those posts, it does read a bit like you are very against it recently though.

I am a member but I am not involved in its running in any way, it does appear to me to be a good idea which is why I paid my money, of course there are issues like in any group particularly a new one but if it achieves 20% of what it set out to do it would be a positive thing for its members.

I wont post any more on it dont want to bore anyone

Dont be a wally.. get commenting we need some DECENT advise and discussion posts. To much twaddle being posted on CIU lately.

This is not the forum for real proper advise anymore, just simple chat.

Long gone are the days when experienced industry types used to come on here and "help"

Nowadays because of all the flaming against them (ok they weren't exactly saints either but got dragged into personal attacks on them), they have long since disappeared.

[Nathanael Jones]

Nat

To me its all words, no substance,

Please explain how you are raising standards in the industry ?  Do you liaise with the hse etc We aim to raise standards from the ground up, starting with the simple things like encouraging all in the industry to carry adequate insurance, and have a safety conscious mindset. As for specific health and safety issues, we have plans this year to liaise with more qualified people and see what specific ways we can promote safety within the confines of our association. As you yourself have pointed out, giving the wrong advice could leave us liable, so we have to tread carefully here and this means its a slow process

do you provide your members with hse advice ? apart from advising how you climb over balconies. Another personal dig Cranky Dave? I was wrong & I admitted it. There is a position available in Guild admin for someone with serious H&S qualifications to help where the rest of us simply aren't qualified (Yet)

Do you attend hse meetings to discuss the way forward in the industry ? I've yet to find a specific HSA meeting/course for our industry in Ireland,.. but I have attended training and meetings for related industries. My Training personally isn't nearly what I'd like it to be,.. But I do hope to improve on it soon

Do you distribute hse guidance leaflets ? No,.. but there are links to some relevant ones on the Guild website

To me, all I can see is you give £20.00, get some stickers, a logo and get a bit of dodgy advice about industry best practice.Fair enough. But even those who know best and never give dodgy advice occasionally fall off their ladder,....  :

I might be wrong, but thats the way i see it Like Bluez said, The guild is in its infancy. We aspire to a lot more!
 Working on a limited budget with only volunteer labour isn't the fastest way to get things done though,.. but we believe that helping the industry means helping ALL in the industry, and that means making the Guild accesible to all & keeping fee's as low as possible,.. many of the guys here wouldn't dream of paying the amount that the FED charges per annum, and so are left out in the cold.
Good things take time though,....

[stephen s]

Yes you should join     andf then you be will be a man my son 

[Niall McAllister]

We pay nothing for this forum, and we get Dave

you get what you pay for

So he has a point

[Moderator David@stives]

Is it so bad that i fell, does that give you great satisfaction as your smiley indicates.

What HSe advice do i give ? apart from directing people to the hse site, or chipping in whenever there is mis-information flying around.

[Niall McAllister]

don't get the connection, so, I'll take it that is aimed at some other post.
Me? I have a world of sympathy for anyone that does them self a mischief coming off ladders, including your good self.

[Niall McAllister]

not that I would want anything bad to happen to you under other conditions

[Moderator David@stives]

Boo

It wasnt aimed at you,

 i dont do sympathy though,  i fell, so thats tough i have to get on with it.

Just call m e a clumsy great oaf instead