[wayne zabel]

Hi guys,as you know I'm a newie who is awaiting delivery of some kit before I start practising on family and friends.

The Prochem agent I have dealt with has advised that for 95% of jobs I will only need to use Multi Pro to prespay and Fabric and Fibre rinse to extract with.

Multi Pro has a PH of 10.5 and Fab and Fib has a PH of 4 so this balances out to create a neutral condition for the carpet and this is what I have been told to achieve on the courses I have attended.

However on reading more of the Pro Chem catalogue I see there are various other extraction chemicals such as Crystal Green that have a PH of 9.5.If this is used in conjunction with alkaline pre sprays isn't it going to leave the carpet too alkaline?

Am I  unduly worrying and letting all the theory go to my head?

Also can someone give me some information about Microsplitters and how they differ from normal chemicals

I hpoe this makes sense,I find all these different chemicals a bit of a minefield at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

[markpowell]

Firstly detergents work by breaking down the soil, emulsifying into a rinsable solution as soil is ph sensitive this is why we use high ph pre-sprays on heavily soiled carpets, then rinse with the acidic rinse to bring the PH back down.
It is essential to acid rinse wool and wool mix carpets to avoid long term damage to the fibre and prevent browning if the jute backing bleeds. The Ph of wool after cleaning should be bvetween 3 - 6.5 ideally.
However if the carpet is syntehetic, Polyprop or nylon then you can rinse with the higher PH rinses, such as Crystal green etc.
If your just starting out i would advise that you use woolsafe products if unsure Pre-spray gold been my favourite, always do a burn test and float test and check for colour bleed.

Microsplitters work in a different way to detergents, they break down the bond between the soil and the fibre, they need a long dwell time and agitation to be effective.

Mark

[wayne zabel]

Thanks for that,now I understand when the higher PH rinses can be used.I had got it in my head that all carpets ,not just wool, should be neutral after a rinse.

Would the use of say Crystal Green give any noticably cleaner/better results than Fabric and Fibre rinse?

[neil 47]

I have a polypropoleyne rug in my living room and over the last 3 years i have cleaned it every 6 weeks with blitz  with no acid pre spray   pH 12 - 12.5.

It has done no visible damage over that period, so don't worry to much



Neil

[davep]

I steer away from high ph rinses,  if its a minger then leave it to dwell a good time as well as plenty of aggitation  

[chrisjohn]

Wayne,I was the same when I started about a month ago.Sometimes all the theory that you learn on the courses can be a little confusing.As Mark said pre spray gold is a good product.If carpet is in poor condition try Powerburst,but remember to rinse with Prochems Fibre Fabric rinse.Should get good results with these products.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

The theory can be a bit confusing and the idea of neutralising the chemicals used is a good one but doesn't take into account the level of buffereing so it is not as simple as saying 4 will neutralsie 10.

There is also the often forgotten factor, HOW CLEAN.

A customer wants a clean carpet, not a neutral one, O.K it is better to have both but the former is the most important.

Remember we are carpet cleaners not neutrailsers.

In practical terms, wool is more likely to colour bleed and be damaged by high alkaline chemicals, sythetics are much more resilient and PP is almost bullet proff!

Cheers

Doug

[derek west]

i neutralise every type of carpet, the less detergeant left in the carpet, the less chance it will soil quicker, a comment that i get a lot from custies on previous cleans to mine. and my reults cannot be bettered.
derek

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Derek,

It is much easier to neutralise with a TM as you have more power and need less cleaning chemical.

It must be best to leave the minimum amount of chemical in the carpet and would be interesting to compare resoling with different approaches, where theory meets real life, one day I might get time to do it as a proper experiment.

Cheers

Doug

[Robert Watson]

Hi Guys,
I never hear anyone mentioning Fibre Safe Gold. Prochem state that its self neutralising,
What`s peoples thoughts as a rinse after say, Power Burst?

"A safe and effective powdered extraction detergent for wool and stain resistant nylon carpets. WoolSafe approved maintenance product for wool carpets and rugs. Fibresafe Gold incorporates a self neutralising pH system which reduces the risk of colour bleed, texture change and re-soiling. Yellow powder with green apple fragrance.
Dilution 1 to 333 pH 8"

I find it very good.
Rab.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Rabby,

The Alltec powder is also claimed to be self neutralising, can't remember what its called.

Cheers

Doug

[Mike Halliday]

Ultimate Master sound like a S & M practitioner

if I use Caustic soda to clean a carpet (which has a Ph of 14) but completely rinse it out with fresh water then why should i be bothered about useing an acid based rinse to neutralise it,  because it is longer on the carpet.

I don't neutralise pre=sprays..... I remove them

[Joe H]

What Mike is saying is basically the difference between those who use an in tank cleaning agent and those who pre spray the cleaning agent.
Using the prespray method means your water tank only has clean water and if this is used efficiently to flush the carpet then you more likely to extract the high ph presprays.

[Mike Halliday]

errrr.... no I'm not

just fresh water often is not effective at removing pre-sprays.

if you pre-spray a carpet you will have a mixture of pre-spray & soil, which hopefully after agitation is not completely attached to the fibre so  this cocktail can be rinse off, but often this cocktail is still a gooey mess which needs help to be removed. so you can have a rince which include a additives to attack this gooeyness or you can use just water but you need a higher amount of water.

I use high flow to remove the soil and heat to liquify the fatty deposits within the soil.

the point I was making was use a high flow cleaning procedure to remove the pre-spray , a wand with 01 jets won't do the job

[Joe H]

    :

[derek west]

put one drop of fairy liquid in a sponge, then rinse it out, good luck.
i neutralise.

derek

[Mike Halliday]

whats fairy liquid got to be with carpet cleaning? not a good example, we don't use fairy liquid and the last time I looked it said carpet cleaning on my van not sponge cleaning.

[jacko]

Microsplitters work in a different way to detergents, they break down the bond between the soil and the fibre, they need a long dwell time and agitation to be effective.
Mark

My understanding is that the new generation splitters like mpower and nemesis DO need about 15 mins dwell time, but ordinary splitters break the bond almost on contact (with agitation) thus requiring no dwell time.

[derek west]

fair enough mike, no probs here.
derek

[nevil]

The fairy liquid example is just daft. We avoid high foaming chems like the plague. I think washing powder would be a better comparison. A low foaming detergent that is designed to clean fabric. 

I agree with Mikes views about thorough rinsing. I just can't see the point of using these so called neutralizes if you are rinsing your carpets properly. The idea of leaving carpets full of the residue of one of these chemicals seems wrong to me. What the customer wants and is paying you for is to leave their carpets with the least foreign matter in as is possible, so to add something to your fresh water that will be left on the carpet to dry is just doesn't work for me.


We don't even need rinse additives when cleaning our own skin which is a lot more delicate than the fibres we clean.