[Shaun_Ashmore]

That's ageism and Simon won't be in on it.

Shaun

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

As I have already stated I believe mentoring should be arranged on a more casual basis, i.e an arrangement between the 2 people.

To place a list on here implies that CIU have in some way endorsed the mentors, which they have not.

Who for example would mentor the mentors, making sure that the 'rules' are abided by.

I believe in a more structured approach to learning and despite what the cynics might say, this is in no way motivated by money.

Cheers

Doug

[robert meldrum]

Don't you all realise by formalising mentoring, it ceases to be mentoring and becomes teaching / training and that will either kill all of this stone dead, or make it unattractive to people who've been mentoring casually for many years.

The genuinely  helpfull / approachable individuals might, stand back, as happens when committees start " running " the show and introduce rules and criteria, which is basically moving into structured teaching with all of the legal requirements kicking in.

When " rules " are introduced to something that's previously been offered out of compassion / friendship / selflessness, many of the genuine people will disappear.

What I'm suggesting is, by introducing all of the restrictions proposed it will become more difficult to find some one willing to give their time and experience freely.

Final thought on this........who will make up the criteria, everyone knows about " the theory "but many, including a man regarded as a bit of a god, does NOT prevac' would this excempt him from the " official "mentors list and what about the most  publcised mentor in the past couple of years.

Drives busses through rule books and uses power tools where others might use a toothbrush, but many have been thrilled by what he does.

Is he barred by NOT " complying " So, before introducing rules maybe you should consider the impact the rules will have on the goals you set

Just a thought! The NCCA have a simple " qualification " which new menbers must take before admission. This little test has been cited as the reason many experienced c/c have never joined.

[darrenk]

Hi all

i have been asked to start cc and would like some help with this we are based in Ashford kent and as this post says about Mentoring would anyone on here know of someone in or around our area to help with this ??

 i have hired a cc from hss hire and tried this out at home but didnt like the results so any guidence would help us out alot !!
 The aim for us as a company is to offer a full range of services but also make sure we can do it well , if i could find someone to help us with this it can also work in a good business relestionship by passing work over ?
i do think if you get help you need to give that back in return in anyway you can !!  

thanks
Darren
A O C

[Simon Gerrard]

Doug,
Does that mean, NO, there will be no Mentoring Scheme sticky topic on CIU or are you merely expressing a personal opinion.
If it is the former I hardly think that someone with such a clear conflict of interest should be adjudicating on this matter, I mean turkeys don't vote for Christmas, do they.

Simon

[Joe H]

but the casual mentoring will go on.

I remember back in the 70's I was a motorcycle training instructor for "L" motorcyclists for Cheshire County Council
I did it, like all the others, on a voluntary basis just getting paid expenses.
Then the government started to roll in formal training schemes which have now become private business run.  I didnt like the thought so dropped out of those formal training schemes.

I carried on training experianced motorcyclists to get to and pass the Institute of Advanced Motorists advanced motorcycle test. This was then, and still is I believe, a voluntary scheme.

I preferred the less formal schemes.

[robert meldrum]

An excellent analogy Joe which I can relate to, having been in the Driver Training industry for some time and one of the reasons I quit was my resistance to the DSA's insistance that everyone goes " by the book " something I could never do and having the highest pass rate in the country was of no interest to the DSA examiners.. The other reason I quit was.......my carpet cleaning was growing and was returning about double the hourly rate I earned from Driver Training.
I've been predicting for a while the same thing happening to the c/c industry. It's already working through the rest of the Cleaning Industry with NVQ's becoming a requirement and that will be followed by H&S / Hygiene in the Workplace / Risk Assessment, etc, and worst of all RECORD KEEPING for the not yet created Cleaning Industry Commission.
Possibly Pete / Doug and co, are fully aware of this and preparing for it. Might be worth diverting the energies into that rather than mentoring , which could become part of a structured training course.
Think I'll back out of this discussion now

[suffolkclean]

Darren - A O C you can't just hire a machine from HSS & expect to get a good result if you don't know what your doing. You need to go on a Training Course to learn the whole carpet cleaning process. Google ' Prochem Training Course'!

[Dave_Lee]

A mentoring scheme sounds good. I wish there had been one 30 years ago, internet and mobile phones too! However I did spend half a day with a Safeclean franchisee in Bristol (I was still in the army at the time). No way was I going to buy a franchise, but I started part time on my hands and knees cleaning carpets by hand, as Safeclean did in those days. A year and four courses later, out of the army, bought my first HWE, a Stimvac Junior. Then it was trial and error for several years in every department of the business from marketing to actual cleaning. It was long slow hard work finding out for yourself, whether you were doing right or wrong, investing wisely or just wasting money on advertising etc.
Yes mentoring is a good thing for the Newbie, and it can bring personal satisfaction rewards for the mentor, so I say if you are up for it good luck to you.
However I can imagine those disatisfied with a CC's mentoring, or those going to more than one, comparing one against the other and tittle tattle going on.
I know from personal experience that this happens, as I have had guys with me for a day, telling me what they didnt like about the other guys methods. I thought this extremely unfair, since the other CC had tried to help, and no doubt was saying similar things about me to his next 'mentor'.
Dave.

[clinton]

Dave sounds like you learnt the hard way mate :

Joe

Same with the lifeboat service i guess and when the men in suits get involved its all red tape and your hands get tied behind your back..

We have similar in the gym here and the older guys like us help the newbies on the weight training side but at the end of the day we are not personal trainers mind you

[robert meldrum]

Clinton

We've been involved in martial arts and football training for a long time in addition to running a Care business. The Paper Trail grows each year for all of these as government and local authority numpties try to make a name by themseves by pushing through " new initiatives " which in real terms make it more expensive and more difficult to carry out the work and the training. The same rules cover all activities, whether voluntary or paid. You can be " lucky " for 10 or 30 years and one day something goes wrong. As sure as hell it will involve the " wrong " person.

With the Courts endorsing big payouts for " negligence " where people have been breaking rules deliberately , or not sticking to their instructions / training, don't expect loyalty from your closest friend or relative when the smell of £100,000 gets into their nostrils.

Yes ........I know this sounds very negative, but if you're unlucky enough to be on the wrong end of a judgement your life can by ruined. It's sickening, but it's the world we currently occupy ! BEWARE !

[clinton]

Think you are right robert with that post.

Shame really and spoils the fun and all the people involved we meet..

[Simon Gerrard]

Guy's,

I started this thread, so I'll finish it.

I think it is a really sad indictment on us all that we don't have the collective will to get together and do something simple and straightforward to help each other where and when we need it.
There seem to be a few distinct reasons for this, the first being apathy, which is to be expected, then there's the fact the person who would have to put this idea to the forum owner has a vested interest in there not being a mentoring scheme because he's developing his own 'structured training courses' and doesn't want people learning things for free for fear of jeopardising his bottom line. And then there are those citing all kinds of legal impediments, although no one seems to know what those impediments might be.

My son is a lawyer at a large legal firm in Manchester and deals with this kind of thing every day. I let him look at the 'legal comments' and he just laughed. There is no contract and no duty of care as the Forum is merely acting as a conduit between the mentor, who is not doing it for financial gain and is merely doing something out of the goodness of his / her heart and as most of the mentoring would be done over the telephone there's hardly a risk to life or limb.
There are message boards in Asda and Newsagents windows advertising all kinds of services, is Asda liable if something goes wrong? No.
All that is required to be absolutely sure that you're beyond reproach is to add a disclaimer, my sone will right it for us.
And lastly, isn't it strange that the CCDO and Truckmounters forums both have Mentoring Schemes set up as sticky topics at the tops of their boards, but not this one. Can't think why though

[derek west]

we moan about and laugh at the PC brigade and H&S and then we bow to them, sad really don't ya think.
derek

[robert meldrum]

Simon

I appreciate your intentions are good as are other peoples. The potential implications cited are for individuals who participate in coaching / mentoring / training, whatever, whether for gain, or not, nothing to do with the forum owners or businesses who supply the " place " where they meet.

Having experienced people give their time FREELY to help others is admirable and welcome by new starts or people too lazy, or too mean to seek out existing providers of training, which goes from novice to advanced and certainly NOT if you're a training provider, or supplier of goods / services to that particular industry )

When it jumps from individuals allowing someone to observe and get some hands on experience being expected to supply credentials before participating I think you'll find that's when legal implications arise.

[Simon Gerrard]

Robert,
What we're talking about here is a very simple, straightforward list of people willing to help other people, free of charge. I don't know what you envisage going wrong. Is there a risk that someone may trip over their own phone line when trying to call their mentor and hence sue, not just the mentor but the forum owners who were negligent in not carrying out a full and detailed risk assessment of every possible eventuality and then do the same procedure to cover all of the impossible eventualities before even thinking of telling people that there are some kind hearted people will to help you?
My son assures me, and he spent six years learning his trade, that no court in the land is going to hold a forum, or individual liable for some perceived harm done to a third party because someone tried to help him.
My son read this topic with incredulity, 'Why aren't people prepared to help each other, dad?' he asked.
I think that tells us all we need to know about our so called modern society, that we're all too scared or too apathetic to do something to help other people and all too often hide behind some spurious reason to do nothing.
Oh well, that's progress for you.
 

[daysdeepclean]

I hope you're wearing a helmet Simon... All that bashing your head against a brick wall is going to cause some damage you know

The guy who sold me the oven cleaning kit mentored me via the phone and I have to say, I can't thank him enough, that side of my business is now thriving!

Nick at Solutions is always there to help to as are all the team at Solutions and Hydramaster, John and Sam are always ready with any advice and tips I need to progress my young business. Neil47 is always happy to chat and we live in the same town, Goron's offered to help too and only lives down the road. It's all mentoring and it is all vital, not just for the individual carpet cleaner, but for our industry as a whole!

I know we like to be individuals, but we all serve a common purpose and that is to offer the public a service they can trust. None of us are happy when some muppet's wets someones sofa and charges £25, because the owner of that sofa will probably never trust "Any" carpet cleaner ever again. So we all suffer to some degree!

[Simon Gerrard]

Colin,
I am bashing my head against a brick wall, but I like to go to sleep at night thinking that I've tried to do something positive to help other people, even though it's a fruitless and often thankless task, but one has to try, doesn't one?

Simon

[paul moss]

Shaun you still have not answered my question.

Any reason for that?

[Simon Gerrard]

Paul,

It's Mr President to you, that's why you're being ignored. Don't they teach you etiquette in Chester? Tut..tut. 

Simon