[Mike 108]

A well thought-out, and well presented, response, Ewan.

But why can’t all your postings be like that, instead of many being  so (hurried and) provocative.

Mike

[matt]

When the first SLX came out Gardiners could easily have added £100 to the price of the twenty five foot pole, still been competitive and still sold them demand was so high.
What price then Ewan do you think carbon telescopic poles should be selling for?

I suppose my gripe is I need one of those 70ft plus poles, but I am finding it hard to justify the price tag of nearly £2,500, so far the customer has agreed to pay for the pole for the work to be done, but there’s no cash profit, it’s a one off job and I will be stuck with a pole I no longer need. With regards to this pole £1,500 would have been OK. Is it possible to have a 70ft plus telescopic pole for that price?

i have a 50 ft job to do, i need 2 more sections for my pole, i wouldnt dream of asking / letting the customer pay for it, just not professional, infact you have just made yourself look really tinpot

I don’t feel I’ve made myself look tinpot; this is one of those jobs that push the limits to any work I have done previously, the work involved was discussed in detail with the customer with regards what need to be, what he wants doing and the different ways to achieve this and balancing this out with the customers budget. Obviously the work is a lot more complex than I have just explained.

I am always honest with the customer and told them my current level of experience and any aspect of the work than I can do with the equipment I currently have, I simply told them I would need to buy a longer pole for there building and we can work out a deal. They know the price of the pole will cost me £2,500 which so far they have accepted, I also told them (at that time) to get other quotes for the work and gave a couple of recommendations. (Who I knew would be very expensive)

I want to do the job for the experience but also with a profit. The modular pole now sounds appealing having spoken to you lot and because of the work & price agreed so far with the customer, the purchasing cost of the modular when compared to the telescopic does put a profit in my pocket.

of course you could allways be honest and accept the company buying you the pole is a generous offer of goodwill and tell them the reduced price of a modular and not take the £2,500 and pocket the change ( thus not putting more profit in your pocket

So not tinpot matt, I can turn my lack of equipment & inexperience into a good sales pitch. Still professional, knowledgeable and confident when dealing with the customer but also realistic and not biting off more than I can chew, nor walking away from the work because I have reached my limits with both equipment & experience.

(Is there anybody on here who has the Facelift one 72ft pole, and regrets it?)

interesting, many ( and myself included ) when doing the sales pitch talk up themselves, when asked by the customer if cleaning at 70 ft would be a problem, my response  would have been " no, not at all, we can clean that and higher " even if i didnt have the pole, i know my pole is 45 ft , so i can reach 47 - 48 ft, i would be pretty confident i could get the pole to 70 ft, if i couldnt i guess i would just swallow the expense and buy 1 of alex
now you have gone the other way and told them about your lack of equipment & inexperience, from my experience ( and i might not be the biggest commercial window cleaner, but i have a few nice accounts which do me nicely ) if i went that route i think the manager ( etc etc ) would have laughed and got his phone out and phoned some1 else

[Alex Gardiner]

When the first SLX came out Gardiners could easily have added £100 to the price of the twenty five foot pole, still been competitive and still sold them demand was so high.
What price then Ewan do you think carbon telescopic poles should be selling for?

Talking for Gardiner’s again ftp, telling us all how they could have put an extra £100 on the pole, by the sounds of it with you he could have put an extra £200 on, Alex must be kicking himself LOL.

I am talking about all carbon fibre poles not just Gardiner’s poles, Alex has already said other manufactures could drop there price and still make a good profit.

I just said the poles are over priced, just wanted others views on this.

I suppose my gripe is I need one of those 70ft plus poles, but I am finding it hard to justify the price tag of nearly £2,500, so far the customer has agreed to pay for the pole for the work to be done, but there’s no cash profit, it’s a one off job and I will be stuck with a pole I no longer need. With regards to this pole £1,500 would have been OK. Is it possible to have a 70ft plus telescopic pole for that price?

With regards to the 70ft+ poles (Ionics 68ft actual length), it is possible that we may in the future produce a 69ft telescopic Super-Max pole (actual length, reach 73ft).  If we were to do this it would have to be made of high modulus carbon fibre similar to our SL2 but of thicker wall structure.  If we were to bring this to market I would need to sell it for £1600 +VAT.  Due to the fact that this would be an 11 section pole (a world first, the current Super-Max47 holds the record with 10 sections), the closed length would still be fairly manageable.  Whilst a Super-Lite would be considerably lighter to work with at these heights, I realize that sometimes telescopic is important.  It's worth remembering though that with a lot of telescopic poles at this length, the clamps are so high up that you might as well be working with a modular for convenience.

Good pitch Alex  , if you do make the pole you mentioned how long will your sections be on the pole? Facelifts section is 8ft

Length closed would be 2300mm/7' 6", it would have 11 sections and the lowest clamp would be at 1940mm/6' 4" the actual extended length would be 70ft (74ft reach) the weight would be about 5kg. It would have a base diamter of 48.5mm.

One would almost think that I had given this some previous thought 

[macmac]

Ewan

I really think your answer to this job is the SL-2, IMO, you'll regret the F1 telescopic. You'll make a profit on the first job & then have the pole for future use, genuinely be able to offer & advertise work @ the 60ft mark etc.

For most, an slx & an SL2 will cover their whole spectrum of work.

If you do go for the F1, I suggest you join a gym & start pumping pretty soon!!

[ftp]

Ewan, your figures are miles out. Buy an S2 for less than £1000 - you already have an SLX remember? You therefore have the whole range already covered.

I'm going to ask my next commercial job to buy me a van.  :

[Gleaming windows]

Why dont you ask if anyone has something suitable to lend for the period of time you need it.

I already posted you can use one of mine. Its good financial sense, it'll show your custard that you're using your head even if you're not, by passing them a £250.00 bill instead of one for £1,500 or whatever it is you've told them they'll have to pay.

[ftp]

Ewan, you are a halfwit. If you owned an SLX you would already know they can be broken down to different lengths. You buy the S2 for your one off two and a half grand job. You then have a modular that can be used from just over five feet to seventy feet.
You could in theory cover every job with that one pole. However most prefer a telescopic for residential work which is why most by an SLX too.
So there you go, the most number of poles you need = 2. (and you already own one) so a grand should cover your needs.

[ftp]

So explain to me why you need more than two poles?

Gardiners have it covered which is why I use their products. You can buy any of their telescopic range and remove any unwanted sections if you so desired. Likewise you will shortly be able to by additional sections should you wish to make a longer pole.
Can you see now why I tend to use Gardiners Poles?

[ftp]

My poles? I have a thirty foot SLX, Sixty odd feet of S2 which also doubles up as my guttervac poles and a crappy Harris pole that never gets used.

[macmac]

Ewan, you are a. If you owned an SLX you would already know they can be broken down to different lengths. You buy the S2 for your one off two and a half grand job. You then have a modular that can be used from just over five feet to seventy feet.
You could in theory cover every job with that one pole. However most prefer a telescopic for residential work which is why most by an SLX too.
So there you go, the most number of poles you need = 2. (and you already own one) so a grand should cover your needs.

That is pretty much spot on, although I'm in a good mood tonight so I've deleted the halfwit part.

I don't know if you have the slx or not ewan but if you don't- Like ftp said, the sections are removable, no tools needed, no hassle. Just unclamp & slip off. Just use this feature to your advantage.

[colinyates]

Carbon poles are quite expensive but a brilliant tool to have.  Let me tell you what EXPENSIVE is.

I am a distributor for Gardiner down here in South Africa. I introduced WFP to this country in 2006.  I now get loads of enquires for kit and the market is now taking note of what is available here.
Had a guy come to see me yesterday who prior to our meeting had been to WETROK who I have also been to nosey at.

Now I hope you are sitting down, because they sell the HIFLO CARBON TEC POLE KIT for R47,663.00 dont suppose to many of you no the Rand exchange rate but its pretty good at the moment at 12 Rand for a pound,
This makes the pole 3971,00 POUND Yes Three thousand nine hundred and seventy one pounds.  And it gets better they also sell a HI FLO DI RESIN FILTER for a mere two thousand eight hundred and seventy six POUNDS.
Mind you it does include VAT   Had to laugh when I asked the salesman how long the resin lasted and he said every month  
BEAT THAT!!!! and keep up the good work Gardiners. Well priced kit

OH nearly forgot to tell you they have sold two or three of these kits.
COLIN

[Gleaming windows]

I knew Alex was a meeleonair 

[mark dew]

Ewan

I really think your answer to this job is the SL-2, IMO, you'll regret the F1 telescopic. You'll make a profit on the first job & then have the pole for future use, genuinely be able to offer & advertise work @ the 60ft mark etc.

For most, an slx & an SL2 will cover their whole spectrum of work.

If you do go for the F1, I suggest you join a gym & start pumping pretty soon!!

I agree to the sl2 part. Dunno about F1.
I bought one july last year for 1 job. The job payed for it after 3 visits.
Fantastic investment. I have bought a couple of extensions and replaced the No1 section last week.
The No3 section snapped in half after 3 cleans but i pushed the broken end through the other part and glued it up.
Since i did that i have used the sl2 on everything since. I have hammered it for a year this month. I need a No2 section very soon.
But it has opened up a new world of windows for me. Ground floor to 50 feet. (there aren't many high building around here.) Money!!!

I did struggle to get used to carrying sections around. I use 2 sections on 95% of my domestic. When i have used 3 or 4 sections it is 50/50 whether i will remember to pick up all the poles before i leave. I've had to drive back several times to pick up a section.
The hose being on the outside isn't as good as inside but is easy to keep taut anyway.

The sl2 is the really the only pole out there that can be used on everything upto 60ft or more. It has been my best purchase pole wise. The 17ft xtel was the previous.  
  

[luther1]

I have a 30ft Facelift carbon pole and it doesn't reach some windows so i have to use my 30ft Gardiners which is obviously longer. Also a carbon 45 ft Brodex.It weighs a tonne but is very rigid.

[ftp]

Ewan - you really are in wind up mode aren't you? Your comments are so ridiculous that you have blown your buisiness ideas apart. My advice would be to take on a new identity on this forum - that way you might last a month or two before we can work out just who you are.  

[matt]

How much money would you expect a carbon fibre pole (or set of poles) to earn you relative to the pole(s) cost, before they are due to be changed?

for me, once a item of tools have earnt me 3 times the cost, its worth it, it was allways the same as a carpenter, if a specialist tool allowed me to earn 3 times the cost, then it was worth the purchase, its allways been my rule for new kit

To have set or range of carbon fibre poles covering ground floor up to 70ft you can spend any from £3,000 - £5,000 for the independent window cleaner this is a lot of cash. Although for you matt you will just swallow the expense and buy one or three.


i would like to think i could get to 70 ft for  under 1 K, with it being a modular pole, it will pay for itself after the first use, as the base sections will be interchanged with other for other jobs, so yes, i would just swallow the expense and buy one pole, just like i will with my 50 ft job



 

[matt]

I'm going to ask my next commercial job to buy me a van.  :

funny enough, i asked one today to buy me a industrial unit , just so i could store my water in

[ftp]

Because not every one cleans the same height properties. Some specialize in very high hospital blocks or blocks of flats, others may only clean two storeys.
Some can't afford a telescopic and a modular others only want a telescopic. Loads of different reasons. You were compaining about pole costs, a solution was put to you to save £4000 yet you can't agree to it. One minute everything is too expensive the next you must spend and buy every pole and lose any profit in a so called job you have. Ewan, you are just trolling the forum looking for trouble. Why?

[macmac]

ftp why don’t Gardiner (the love of your life) or any other manufacture make and sell only 2 types of poles?

Serious question, if you don’t know the answer ask Alex.

I think your methods are unusual Ewan, 99% of wfp'ers would be fine with those two poles. There isn't enough of a market to make money for the other 1% for pole manufacturers I would say.

[Gleaming windows]

Have to say there doesnt appear to be any logic (business logic or plain common sense logic) in what he is saying. Cant spot it, has to be said.


I suspect he is on a wind-up; or is ignorant of what pole is best for any given scenario; or just desnt know what he is talking about.

Possibly a combination of 2 of those things or maybe all 3.