[Goldfinch PCS]

Anyone here a part of Piranha Marketing (Joe Polish) and can share their experience?
or
Success Track Business Training Ltd (Jonathan Jay)

I once saw one of Jonathan Jay's videos and there was a CC on it from Leicester, can't remember the name of the company, So I was just wondering if anybody on here is a part of  an of  these marketing guru workshops.

[Dennis]

there was a CC on it from Leicester, can't remember the name of the company,

So that marketing worked well then. 

[derek west]

if you've got no morals or a conscience, then go for it, it will work a treat.
derek

[Mike Halliday]

if you've got no morals or a conscience, then go for it, it will work a treat.
derek

that's an interesting opinion, like to expand on it?

[derek west]

okay mike, maybe thats slightly over the top, i know a few fast trackers and i'm sure they give value for money but not everyone does,  the thing with all this fast track stuff that really winds me up is....

it tells you how you can make loads of money by selling to niche clients, and i'm guessing thats rich people, old ladies and gullible people who don't know any better. but no where, and i mean no where does it say, "oh and by the way, we'll train you up so your really good at cleaning carpets to justify all this money". theres some excellent cleaners out there. but theres also some crap ones who are good at fast tracking.

i'm regularly aproached to join the fast track programme and there sales pitch makes me laugh....

you can earn money without doing anything, money going in the bank while your playing golf or on holiday

in fact, on the phone, all they rave on about is playing golf, "imagine going out for the day, playing a round of golf while money is flooding into your account"

not my style. i like hard work, and i like it even better when i get payed well.

i'll never be rich, cos i can't conform to this style of working or not working as the case may be, all though saying that, they say you'll never hit 100k a year unless you choose fast track, i will.

from your comments i'm guessing your either a fast tracker or considering it.

derek

ps... any fast tracker out there earning 100k 200k a year and working all hours that god sends, my comments don't apply to you. but if your reading this from your blackberry on the golf course and you not in till wednesday cos your just off to paris shopping, while some old dear fills your account!!!!!!!! thems the ones

pps...i'm gonna get some stick for this one aren't i, oh well, bring it on........................

[gwrightson]

Never taken a Blackberry or a mobile on the golf course yet,  but picked up loads of work on a golf course   including the cleaning of the club houses.

Dont think Mike would be considering fast track if I know him Like I think I do
He does well enough as it is.

Maybe wrong, sure he will let us know.

geoff

[derek west]

maybe its because i don't like golf.
derek

[Simon Gerrard]

The thing about Fast Track is it encourages you to charge excessive prices and even gets you to believe that those excessive prices are fair prices, which they are not. There's also the selling of add-ons, like protection, which if the truth be told the vast majority of carpet do not need, but yet it is sold as a matter of course to up the ticket, which to me is nothing short of robbery.
You should never sell a client something when the only beneficiary of that sale is you.
I know quite a few fast trackers, and know of a few more and the ones that will talk to you honestly about it will tell you it is nothing more than a fishing expedition you have to go on every week to find gullible people, or people with more money than sense that will pay two and three times the going rate for a job that is no better than anyone else.
I like sleeping at night and ripping people off, which is what overcharging people is, just doesn't sit right with me.

Simon

[robert meldrum]

I became very unpopular on here a year or so ago for expressing exactly the same sentiments as Simon and Derek.
Not at Fast Trackers who mostly use the method to improve their business through better marketing, but by others who regard charging extremely high prices and working part time to be ethical and desirable.
I expressed the opinion that such people were the real cowboys and the ones who gave the industry a bad name.
This is absolutely NOT aimed at the genuine businesses who gradually increase prices annually and aim for a gross hourly rate around £90 - £100 per hour.

[Simon Gerrard]

Well said, Robert.
Some of the people you mention use their high prices as some sort of sick badge of honour, 'I charge people £xxxx's, aren't I good.?' No, mate, you're a tw_t!
I have never knowingly overcharged a customer for anything, I have never knowing sold someone something they didn't need and yet I still have a fantastic business with a loyal customer base that are loyal to me because they trust me.

Simon

[Goldfinch PCS]

Wow! Guys don't kill me I am not part of any Marketing Program, However Derek is right I was thinking of joining one. I haven't decided which one and I wont use it to robbed people I am not that type of guy. I don't like hard unfair selling never did, however I could do with a few more top end clients to avoid competing on price at the moment. All I am getting from my new enquiries is why is my prices that much and it's all because of the majority of sites posting £5.00 per bedroom on the internet. London carpet cleaning is going crazy, can't believe the prices I am seeing on the net. It also seems that nobody reads the rest of the page for these site, because they would realise that the minimum charge for most of these companies is between £35 - £50, that's a whopping 10 bedrooms. I am winning clients but I don't want quantity I want quality if I am to be honest.

I mention Joe Polish, Jonathan Jay because they seem to have a massive following within their respective countries. The fast-track program I guess you guys are taking about is the Alltec Program. Jonathan Jay's programs seems more to do with Marketing messages and getting the words and image right. I have watched a couple of his videos and his programs aren't industry specific. It's mainly based around the internet, email marketing and the marketing message.

Has anyone got any experience of these two guys in particular, programs?

I saw this guy on one of Jonathan Jay's program - http://www.thecarpetcleaningman.co.uk/page/1cyf7/Healthy_home.html
I think he could be on Alltec's as well not sure, but he was confident that these programs work.

Another quick point  Pierre De Wet is on Robert's program and he is killing it isn't he? I like the guy nothing stops him and I am working on that approach.

[Mike Halliday]

I don't think fast track is as bad as what people make out, they charge high prices but if they deliver quality cleaning who are we to say they charge too much, most of the moaning is sour grapes by the people who charge lower prices and then have to justify it to them selves by calling fasttrackers crooks.

lots of carpet cleaner have convinced them selves that what they charge is the correct, fair price, if anyone charges more than them they must be crooks, if any one charges less they must be fools.

the only thing I don't like about fast track  is how the trot out all thier success stories and tell everyone that Joe do-wet or billy Bobcock earns 200grand a year and charges £15yrd so it must be  easy, what they don't tell you about it all the carpet cleaners who have paid the money and not been successful

[Glynn]

So they say £100K a year is only achievable by FT'ers ?.
What a load of rubbish, that's incredible.
I'd like to know whether the FTer's themselves would fall for the hard sell off the likes of YP, Double glazing etc etc, like a taste of their own medicine.
It's definitely not for me I prefer the good old fashioned sound customer/trader relationship where a premium service is supplied at a fair price and a long term friendship or business relationship exists between customer and cleaner.

[Mike Osbourne]

There's a total myth about what a good salesman is. The immediate thought is pushy, greedy untrustworthy.

This is more the traits of a desperate poor salesman. And yes we are exposed to them everyday via telesales YP, upvc windows etc, why? because these arn't good sales people they are desperate number turners a month away from the dole que.

The other myth is the - He's a good salesman he's got the gift of the gab. Well you can't talk anybody into buying something until they have decided it to themselves and bullying them into it just gets peoples back up.

Good salesman end up not having to sell hard because they put themselves infront of the right people and they know that the mortgage doesn't ride on getting the job.

The one thing I know about fastrak is it's not a one shot wonder, why would they try and screw some pensioner out of  £300 for a suite when they are quoting in 6 bed high end homes everyday and go back every six months to clean on contract?

[mark_roberts]

All this is boiling down to is what is a fair price.  This should be determined by the customer.  We set our prices with whatever criteria we decide the customer chooses to accept or decline.

Simon - so what about the guy who charges £40 to clean a suite and thinks thats a fair price but you charge £100 and think thats a fair price and someone charges £150 and think thats a fair price.  Whos right and whos wrong?

Answer - no one except the customer and if fast trackers earn £100k while playing golf fair play to them.

Mark

PS. IMO the only reason fast trackers make money is that they do something ie. marketing having paid the £4000.  Ive got fast track (secondhand) but have made nothing from it cause I didnt implement it.

[derek west]

i'm fine with someone charging silly money for a living room carpet, £40, £80, £120, its how you come to that price that borders on ripping people off, "oh' you'll need protector" "oh and anti allergen" "oh and you'll have to have the walk ways cleaned in 6 months" "oh and then theres the fullclean again next year but you really need all this, watch the horrer video to prove it mrs jones, that'll scare you into handing over your hard earned/not so hard earned money, and if that doesn't work, anthea will convince you" "and the good news is your initial clean is on offer with 50% off, now you sign that direct debit, and youve been done, i mean! and were done mrs jones" "right, whers me golf clubs, just got enough time to do the back nine"

quote the price (however much) do a bloody good job and ask her if she wants it doing again in 12 months time. i can live with that.

at the end of the day, fasttrack is a hard sell option, implemented to you by hard sell salesmen. "i'll work it out meself thanks mr polish, you just keep making me look good" hell yeah!

derek

[Simon Gerrard]

Mark,
You make a fair point.
I think the guy that charges £40 for a suite thinks he is being competitive, because many in this industry see price as the only criteria in the competitive stakes.
Where I take issue with the fast track scheme is that they seem to be hell-bent on up-selling. For instance selling protector on every job where we all know that in the vast majority of cases the only beneficiary is the fast tracker by selling something the customer may not need and that to me is immoral. You could argue, I suppose, that if the customers says yes to it then that makes it ok, but selling something that the customer gains little or no benefit from to me is unprofessional.
Trust is a very big thing when trying to build a business and I for one would only recommend protector, etc only if I was convinced that the customer actually needed it.
Also, there is very little evidence that suggests fast trackers are on £100k. What they are shy about admitting is that yes, they get higher prices than the average cc but have to work very hard indeed to find people willing to pay those sorts of prices.
On the other hand if I were quoting a top end property with plush carpets and fabrics then I would be charging them a higher rate because of the extra work and time it takes to work on those kind of furnishings.

Simon

[Mike Osbourne]

It just doesn't stack up that they are ripping people off.

Every good business knows you can screw someone once and then you have to find another mug. The Fastrak scheme is all about developing clients and making money over the long haul. They even offer free clean loss leaders because they know the money is in the back end. How many carpet cleaners would do that?

And yes Simon, it does take a lot of effort to find and keep those sorts of Clients, that's the trade off and most people can't or won't do it but moan when they can't get top prices off their easy to get clients.

[Simon Gerrard]

Mike,
I think the trade off is, yes, when you're cleaning you're on good money, but then there is all the downtime while your doing all of the marketing and quoting that it takes to find those high price jobs, while the guy's charging moderate prices are doing job after job and may well be earning more money. That's certainly the suggestion I've picked up from the faster trackers I know of, most of them being ex-fast trackers btw.

Simon

[derek west]

i get one of these every week and a letter every month

Hi Derek,
 
Finally, the new dates for the ALLTEC Extravaganza 200

Are You Sure You'll Have Enough Work In The Slow Season?(yes thanks)

"Learn How You Can Organically Grow
Your Carpet Cleaning Business" (no thanks)
 
What is the ALLTEC Extravaganza ...(a way of upselling alltec)

Well if you want...

your average job ticket to be above £200!
your 'customers' to happily pay your 'going rate'!
not to worry about other cleaners under cutting your prices! (i don't worry, i'm good at what i do, its there loss)
more confidence to help you up-sell on every job! (upsell upsell upsell)
'your customers' to gladly come back every year! (they all ready are doing)
win the constant battle of finding new customers! (i can't complain)
Then the ALLTEC Extravaganza is for you!

........

mither mither mither, thats what they do to me and i'm guessing thats how they'll teach me to do it to my custys, i read in one of the fast track books send them birthday xmasday even valentines day reminders, talk about high pressure. my custys would get well pee'd off if i did that, i know i would,

derek