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Marc's on the Glass, LLC

  • Posts: 134
Meet the Competition!
« on: May 19, 2005, 06:50:46 pm »
My partner and I canvassed a new area last week.  As we were pitching to one store manager, a "custormer" waked in.  My partner was discreet and lowered his voice a bit and got right to the point. 

The manager said "we already have a window cleaner."  What does my partner say?  "Well, here is our card with an estimate.  If things don't work out with your current cleaner...", should've stopped there, but didn't.  "You know, like..." and starts giving some examples.  The store manager said ok. 

Turns out the "customer" was their current window cleaner and he started in on us.  "Get that money boys, go get that money!!!"  He persisted as we walked out.  When he followed us outside, I told him that competition is par for the course, no disrespect meant.  He told me he wouldn't let anyone come in here and take away his work.  I simply pointed out that he was doing that to himself with his unprofessionalism, and the god awful job he was doing...I mean it was bad. 

This week we followed up with several of those stores, minus the place of confrontation.  To our dismay, this guy is cleaning many of the 80 stores there.   He does the glass...and the toilets.  He charges 30% of our industry's standard!  Guess we'll see what happens.

Has anyone ever been at the right palce at the wrong time?

Jeff Brimble

  • Posts: 4347
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2005, 07:45:12 pm »
Think its unethical to price before youve been asked to.

TERRY AB

  • Posts: 167
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2005, 08:06:18 pm »
You should never start showing the customer what the
competition are doing wrong "thats unprofessional" how
is the customer to know you will do better in the long run;
better would be to let the customer know how you would do
the Job, for example saying we will always control our employees
and check with the store management regulary and go throught
any discrepencies and make sure the are corrected. Putting down the
competitor is cheap; do you know if he has friends at hogh places ?
if so you dont stand a Monkeys chance of getting.
Makeing an ffer before being asked is also a mistake; its better to get the
possible future customers interest going first and then offering to male a quote,
then he will be looking forward to recieving it.

rosskesava

Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2005, 08:19:13 pm »
A while back while on our commercial round someone in the street stopped us and made a comment about our work vehicle (a hearse).

During the good humoured conversation I joked that we can park almost where we want because the local police havn't cottoned on that we're window cleaners and that they probably think we're funeral directors.

This person then said that is really funny because our hearse was parked with all 4 wheels on the pavement and now we'll have to clean some windows for nothing.

We all looked at each other and when I asked why he said he was the local copper and 'do we know the small police station by the round-a-bout'.

So, every 4 weeks we clean 6 smallish windows and one door as a gesture of good will and good community spirit.   :-[

Still it helps to be friendly with the local police I suppose and it only takes the 3 of us maybe 5 minutes and it's on our route anyway.

With regards the unethical bit of the above postings. I wouldn't call it unethical. Business is business and companies all over the country fight to win orders and work and contracts etc change hands all the time. The cost of the service provided is often a major concern to a customer and usually that is the bottom line. The service bit is where the talking comes into it.

If a shop, office, etc says they have a w/c already I say thank you and leave simply because if the windows are clean then why spend time and effort when it could be spent better else where. If the windows are not clean and they say they have a window cleaner they know I'll be back in 4 months because I tell them that and then if they want to change window cleaners - then it's up to them whether to say so the next time I call.

I walk into every shop etc on our commercial routes once every 4 months and every time I pick up at least 3 or 4 jobs where the owners have no w/c or want to change w/c for whatever reason and it's easy canvasing, stress free and productive and done on rainy days.

Hi Woodley Washers

I agree totally. It's being proffessional and having good posture and I never ever put down the previous w/c no matter how bad he was.

Last year I asked a local w/c (respectfully) how he got away with doing such a bad job and he said 'they pay 50p a window'. He had a good point in that the customer did not expect a good job at that price.

Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 09:45:42 pm »
He charges 30% of our industry's standard!  Guess we'll see what happens.


If window cleaners can do a sub-standard, quick job and keep their customers happy; I'd say good luck to them.  They're just using their heads and keeping their feet for dancing - as they say.

But do you mean by the 30% comment that he's undercharging?

If you can charge more and get the work.  Go for it!  As long as your not using the naff tactic of 'bad-mouthing' his work to the prospective customer. 

If you're undercutting him; don't.  You're just dragging down the incomes of fellow window cleaners for a job you probably will dump in the long run.

Also, do you really want to clean their toilets too?  I wouldn't - although I could send in Wor Lass (my Missis and fellow window cleaner) to do that.  She keeps ours imacculate.  Hey, you've just given me an idea!

Regards.

Tosh.

Marc's on the Glass, LLC

  • Posts: 134
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2005, 09:49:05 pm »
Yes, it is very unprofessional to put down someone in your trade.  I would never do it.  This fellow was harrassing us in the store, then as we took our leave he followed us out the door to continue.  It was at that point that I pointed out to him (with no others around) that we meant no disrespect to him, just trying to make a living as well.  When he badgered us, I simply stated that he was being unprofessional, and it would be his business practice that hindered him, not us.

Think its unethical to price before youve been asked to.

WHY???  I have lost only 5 clients to a lower bidding w/c in the last 3 years.  Three of them called me back within a few months.  With commercial jobs, the money isn't really an issue.  One guy might charge 25/month, while another 30/month.  That extra 5 means nothing to a business.  What they are looking for is quality and reliability.  It is with these things, not prices that you will keep the majority of your business.  I think that anyone who relies on those ethics needs to consider their business practice.  What is going to help you keep your customers?  Accusing someone of being unethical by giving your client a price before asked?  

However, I do think my partner took it too far, and he realized that too.  

Rosskesava, I guess once in a while we all let one out that we wish we could put back.

Tosh, I mean to say that he doesn't know what he is doing.  He isn't even close to what he should make for the jobs he is doing.  I NEVER undercut, that is the meaning of giving the estimate right up front.  That is my price, final.  Toilets, no way. 

Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2005, 09:56:34 pm »
  Toilets, no way. 

Clear View,

Fair enough, Mate.  But I think he's got the advantage if he's prepared to slop out the bogs!  That could be a big selling point!

Marc's on the Glass, LLC

  • Posts: 134
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2005, 09:59:47 pm »
It will be a sad day for window cleaners when they have to polish porcelain just to keep their glass jobs... At least, I will be sad

Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2005, 10:12:37 pm »
It's the dried on stuff that's hard to cope with - the rest I can do.

Try a thick liquid on the bowl, go and do the windows and come back a bit later and it should have softened up enough to scrape off.

Little tip from an expert.

G.

Grayham, I'm not homophobic mate, you know that.  That was your best ever post.  Honestly, Mate.  Really made me laugh.  Honest.

Hugs.

Tosh.X

rosskesava

Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2005, 10:25:51 pm »
Hi Clear View

Bog cleaning????

Never ever ever under any circumstances.

Unless the price was right.  ;D

Also, I have this incredible ability to put my foot in it in the right place at the worst possible time.

I did a real corker this week to a new customer who had no legs. I felt so so stupid and am too embarrised to post it.

Hi Graham

Your an expert on scraping er... er... the solid stuff? ? ?

I live in Brighton but for some reason my mind just still goes blank......  ;D


AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25385
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2005, 10:32:06 pm »
Also, I have this incredible ability to put my foot in it in the right place at the worst possible time.

Do you really use your feet to clean bogs? ;D
It's a game of three halves!

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 11:05:38 pm »
All of you ave missed the point,how many toes as this guy trodden on ,how many slime balls as he delt on other w/c.In buiss you have no friends,friends come and go a good enemy stays for life.theres a slime ball on my old commercial work who I would love to see meet with an accident,how a guy whos charging 4 squid for two large shop windows using towels and a dish cloth can beat a pole system [Ialso did the shop signs x 2] my price was 10 squid evey 2 weeks his is 4 squid every week,Ive a good mind to do them for a squid just to get him back,and then leave the customer stuck without a window cleaner after doing it three/four times cus he works cash in hand I doubt they dont even know his proper name,or his phone no.
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

rosskesava

Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2005, 11:07:19 pm »
Hi Gaza

That how Stage Coach got so big

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2005, 11:35:12 pm »
Ross: exactly but Im not that desperate,but that is how it makes you. Theres another bloke whos got 5 dole lads working for him paying peanuts but getting the work,while he sits at home,A really nice guy who is a customer,[hes a gardener I ve give him the work for free if Im asked
]has told that bloke to find someoe else to do his lawns etc.after hearing him giving the lads a grilling in his office sorry garage. Mr big noise thats the guy Im really after,let him train them up then poach them the give them a proper job,if they want one,with proper misters wages,Im7/8 weeks behind in my round and still carnt get rid of them they keep on coming thropugh the grapevine
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

rosskesava

Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2005, 12:49:24 am »
Gaza

Stage Coach are a hated company in the industry and if I remember correctly, the couple who started it split up for that very reason. The missus didn't like the way the Mr did business.

Personnaly, I wouldn't stoop low like that either with regards window cleaning.

There is WFP company around here who act like that. They poach business and do the job for silly prices for a month or two and then vannish. Then another company, which is the same business in reality but with different vans, then offer to do the same job at a higher price which was the same price or there abouts as the w/c who was originally doing the job.

I hope they rot in hell.

Cheers


*strawman69

  • Posts: 98
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2005, 09:54:03 am »
i think your bang out of order going around poaching other peoples business if all window cleaners went round trying to undercut each other then none of us would be earning the sort of money we earn now. How would you like ut if somebody walked into your shops and undercut you.

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2005, 11:46:38 am »
been done to me already by slime balls,you may like to read the whole story read my postings again,this time read it slowly so it has time to get the cogs spinning,then wake the hamster up so he con spin his wheel.

 sorry to be abrupt

 gaza
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

MPJK

  • Posts: 7
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2005, 02:45:30 pm »
Although I'm new to w/c myself, my parents have been in the trade nearly 25 years.  Along with some words of advice from old' man, I would reiterate that there are enough windows out there.  Although not as established as I would like, I've already gained enough confidence and customer loyalty to realise that competition will always be there.  Do a good job, be fair and consistent that's what matters.  Fly-by window cleaners will come and go.  I've already picked-up alot of customers owing to this.  When quoting, I'm frequently told...."that's more than my old window-cleaner used to charge!"  A polite remark mentioning that "you get what you pay for!" always sorts-out the pretenders.  One guy wanted me to clean his 5-bedroom house (inc PVC) for £4.50!! I gave him my price, walked-away and now he pays me what I want and some more.  The old adage "everyone wants a good deal!" springs to mind.

My attitude is to concentrate on my business and let the competition worry about ME and the Service I provide.

Sorry to get on my soap-box guys!!

Cheers

MPJK

Spoonbill1970

  • Posts: 38
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2005, 04:17:22 pm »
Hello,

My 2p worth . . .

When people say "you're more expensive than the last WC / I can get it cheaper etc", I always like to point at their car and ask them why they didn't get a cheaper one. It's not always about what's price. The penny usually drops.

JSP

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: Meet the Competition!
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2005, 06:33:04 pm »
2 things here 1, if the customer says they already got a window cleaner then leave well alone, 2, do not undermine someone elses workmanship surely the owner of the premises should know if the job is not upto scratch
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk