[PCNW]

Just wondering if any of you would undercut rivals for long term gains like looking to eventually raise the prices and increase the value of your business whilst building a stronger customer base?
This is how ive operated and how ive built my business however many seem against it in principle but it makes perfect business sense to put rivals out of business and take their business away

[jouk45]

never

[PCNW]

some times ive gone onto estates not with any intension of undercutting and got enough work for one day which im happy with and we provided a much better service also-There are wcs we have as friends and we dont work in each others areas - Some estates we are more expensive but this strategy ive used for quick expansion and long term gain - What i can t understand is that in any other business where the was healthy competition this would be seen as good business but in window cleaning its seen as stealing

[jouk45]

it is stealing, we window cleaners have always had an understanding, simple as it may seem to you, ask the custy if they have a w/c. if they say yes, walk away, not becouse of fear of the window cleaner bashing me, it is called respect, you wont be saying all this stuff if it happened to you,

[PCNW]

it very nearly did thats why i adopted this strategy early on
Im just asking why this isnt seen as good business

[PCNW]

it is stealing, we window cleaners have always had an understanding, simple as it may seem to you, ask the custy if they have a w/c. if they say yes, walk away, not becouse of fear of the window cleaner bashing me, it is called respect, you wont be saying all this stuff if it happened to you,

Is that what asda say to tesco when they cut their prices?
Its like sky saying to virgin media we wont advertise in this area because you have more customers there

[jouk45]

if you have already lost business to other w/c, you need to ask yourself, why are you losing them, alway communicate with your custys, dont be scared to ask them if there are any problems, i ask this always when i am collecting payments, you need to keep close contact with your customers,

[EZclean]

it is stealing, we window cleaners have always had an understanding, simple as it may seem to you, ask the custy if they have a w/c. if they say yes, walk away, not becouse of fear of the window cleaner bashing me, it is called respect, you wont be saying all this stuff if it happened to you,

Is that what asda say to tesco when they cut their prices?
Its like sky saying to virgin media we wont advertise in this area because you have more customers there

no its not
dont think you can put yourself i the same league as the big 4 supermarkets. or sky!
we're window cleaners, mostly sole traders working domestic rounds.
commercial i see differently, fair game to price how you want to get a contract thats out to tender, but to aggresively underprice to remove a fellow window cleaner from an estate who is just making his wage, is unforgivable and not business at all .

[sparklebright]

[

Is that what asda say to tesco when they cut their prices?
Its like sky saying to virgin media we wont advertise in this area because you have more customers there

You're being a bit naive....Tesco will cut the price on one product to raise it on another. Really when you pay full price for anything in a supermarket, you are paying a premium. The real price for the item is the sale price. The other price is one they can get away with.

With window cleaning there is a difference. Work takes a certain amount of time, and if you undercharge it will be tricky to recover the money.

Aside from the moral of the whole thing. If I am asked to price a house that has a windy I will consider why he charges that price. It's that price for a reason.
To be cheapest at something shows little imagination and shows one as being a poor salesman. Any fool can be the cheapest.

Let's hope your area isn't flooded by the poor people happy to make £5 an hour. I would like to see you undercut them.

[cozy]

I work British custies in 6 areas, all squaddies, the rest are Germans. In 3 of these areas, I have 2 other WC's. I am the most expensive and  have lost none to the other WC's even though in some cases, they are upto 20% cheaper than me. The longest squaddie custy that I have is 3 years, because they move every 2 or 3 years. So really, I am wide open to other WC's undercutting me.

I think it's not as easy as you imagine to build a biz by undercutting. In your head, maybe. But I get the impression that you aren't really a WC at all, and if you are, at best, a part time one.

Just my opinion.

[leapstallbuildings]

Just wondering if any of you would undercut rivals for long term gains like looking to eventually raise the prices and increase the value of your business whilst building a stronger customer base?
This is how ive operated and how ive built my business however many seem against it in principle but it makes perfect business sense to put rivals out of business and take their business away

I dislike that window cleaning business model so much, I wouldn't even do it to you.

[leapstallbuildings]

it is stealing, we window cleaners have always had an understanding, simple as it may seem to you, ask the custy if they have a w/c. if they say yes, walk away, not becouse of fear of the window cleaner bashing me, it is called respect, you wont be saying all this stuff if it happened to you,

Is that what asda say to tesco when they cut their prices?
Its like sky saying to virgin media we wont advertise in this area because you have more customers there

It's a fact of life that most window cleaning businesses are small and that such tactics impact much more directly on a person's wellbeing.  No problem with getting work in a new area where others work.  It's the bit about trying to persuade a householder who already has a service to switch by artificially dropping the price in order to increase it later.  Even the customers lose respect for you when you do that.

[sgibsoncleaning]

i think there is a elephant i the room.
so i will say it.
some window cleaners are plain greedy and think their hourly rate matches solicitors. if you want to charge 30 quid for 2o mins work, and your customer is asking others for quotes.  i hate to tell you they aint happy with your price.
business is business. say you have 2 shops in your street and you want a mars bar one sells them for 40p the others sell them for 80p, where do you buy yours. if both shops meet the price in the middle then bingo, both shops keep customers. that rarely happens but the cheaper one has room to increase his price and keep a good stock of happy satisfied customers. the expensive one will lose customers.

over the past few years on this forum, the talk of earnings has got to the level of stupidity. 3 years ago £20 an hour was seen as very good and achievable. so we priced with that in mind. now it seems that it become a free for all and some think their hourly rate should be a lot higher. then they moan when someone takes work from them. some of the biggest window cleaners on here never talk about earnings. i have always found that people  who brag about what they earn are usualy telling porkies.
i aint cheap i aint dear but i have not lost a customer to another window cleaner in too many year to remember.
and yes i would take a customer who is being over charged. did it last week.
a row of 4 small 3 story town houses, only 5 windows and a french door per house,  easy access back and front. all four easily done in 30 mins. his price £20 each. now i got four very happy customers  who have already got me more work.

[Slash]

I am not cheap nor am I out to rip anybody off but I was doing a house last week and the neighbour asked me for a quote,I did so and I thought it was a fair quote,not too cheap and not to expensive,she agreed on the price and then told me her WC charged £15.00 more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,thats almost double the price I quoted her
She was delighted and I got the job,some WC's are far too greedy and it's not my buisness to ask if she has one already,thats buisness I'm afraid,I don't see myself as under cutting but expanding my buisness fairly,if I was going around over pricing work I am sure I would lose a few as well,if not all my work,be realistic guys

[Londoner]

Good posts, I think the original idea that most of us started with was just to earn a living. For most of us thats what we do.

[leapstallbuildings]

i think there is a elephant i the room.
so i will say it.
some window cleaners are plain greedy and think their hourly rate matches solicitors. if you want to charge 30 quid for 2o mins work, and your customer is asking others for quotes.  i hate to tell you they aint happy with your price.
business is business. say you have 2 shops in your street and you want a mars bar one sells them for 40p the others sell them for 80p, where do you buy yours. if both shops meet the price in the middle then bingo, both shops keep customers. that rarely happens but the cheaper one has room to increase his price and keep a good stock of happy satisfied customers. the expensive one will lose customers.

over the past few years on this forum, the talk of earnings has got to the level of stupidity. 3 years ago £20 an hour was seen as very good and achievable. so we priced with that in mind. now it seems that it become a free for all and some think their hourly rate should be a lot higher. then they moan when someone takes work from them. some of the biggest window cleaners on here never talk about earnings. i have always found that people  who brag about what they earn are usualy telling porkies.
i aint cheap i aint dear but i have not lost a customer to another window cleaner in too many year to remember.
and yes i would take a customer who is being over charged. did it last week.
a row of 4 small 3 story town houses, only 5 windows and a french door per house,  easy access back and front. all four easily done in 30 mins. his price £20 each. now i got four very happy customers  who have already got me more work.

I hear what you say but I think it is also important to bear in mind the higher costs of running WFP.  Just the fact of having WFP demands a higher hourly rate.  This doesn't equate to charging the customer more though - it just means that the job needs to be done more quickly.  The costs of replacing poles, filters, fittings, hoses etc are not trivial nor is needing to run a larger van due to weight issues.  Not all of us are able to do this from home either (I live in a flat) so some kind of premises is needed and that has to be paid for.  There is also the (much) higher water bill if on a meter.  In short, having WFP costs £x per hour more than working trad so this should be reflected in the price.  The money the customer pays is turnover - not income.  Even though my business is not the most cost effective, £30 for 20 minutes does still sound on the high side.  I do have a couple of commercial jobs where I hit that level.  I priced (and got) them before I had started properly realising the potential speed of working with WFP on jobs where there is bulk cleaning.  Just as well I have to do them at the weekend I suppose when no-one is about.  Having said that, the first couple of cleans were a lot longer and I needed to use a modular pole.  I speeded up when I got the SL-X and could do it telescopically.  So I did spend a few hundred pounds to achieve that rate of turnover (though obviously I use it on other work too.
I have a couple of town houses too where I charge £20.  Not many windows but they are very large ones.  Also, the access has to be pre-arranged for when people are in as I have to go through the house with backpack.  This all means that I need to do them on a Sunday.  It means I'm workingf in a way that I dislike (I have built my round on not pre-arranging nearly all jobs) and giving up a bit of the weekend so I think I'm entitled to charge premium rate for that.  The £40 takes about 45 minutes.

[mick partington]

iv only been on here a short time and iv seen pcnw as he,s now known turning the screw a few times but you lot always take the bait and he knows this i think theres a big differance between getting work of another windy whoes way overpriced it and having a very aggresive undercutting policy it would be interesting if a load of polish workers as iv seen in mancheser did this to him,theres a few windys round here from st,hehens is this becouse he,s driven them out of town :.

[mick partington]

i should add to that that we,re not nieve we know bussness is about making money and beating your competiters, sky called here the other day and seid thay were cheaper than my current suppliers,i did,nt want to know as im happy with who im with, but thats a massive company when window cleaners employ the same strateges it impacts a mans living and directly takes food from his familys mouth so by saying you go undercutting to remove windowcleaners from a estate you are really out of order and im just glad i did,et buy any work from you if thats how you attained it 

[PCNW]

i didnt say this is how i canvass now this was my strategy when i first took the plunge into self-employment and all the rounds i gained like this where actually the first to sell - What i was asking was why do many wcs respect each others "patches" when theres no such thing

When i canvass now im not desperate for work so i just quote the best price possible and one im happy with and sounds reasonable to the customer just happens that we are one of the expensive window cleaners in st helens but we provide a service to the highest standard with what i think is exeptional customer service

[dazmond]

i find that a lot of my custys have had other WCs trying on my rounds to undercut etc at least 3 or 4 times a year.not lost one in 15 yrs.its a bad way to do business in my book.you,ll make enemys.i get on with my custys and do a proper job,regular,and not too greedy with pricing and always keep my word and be honest and the trust will come in time and u will never lose a custy to w****rs like the dickhead who started this post.he wont last long in this business. ;Ddomestic custys are fiercely loyal to a good honest WC i find.hard work and charm and honesty have got me far further than underhand tactics.what goes around,comes around


regards dazmond