[windows_chepstow]

Foxman stated on UBA1's 'Improvement needed' that he squeegies without detailing (removing the line of water left around the edges of a window).

I can do the same; but a line of water is generally left around the sides.  And then I have to scrim.  I assume Foxman doesn't leave any mess; like I do.

I believe it can be done, but I only seem to be able to do it successfully with painted window frames, not UPVC, which is the bulk of my work. 

On another window cleaning site (an old one) I read it could be done, but it was rather vague about how.  It said something like 'observe how the water reacts to your squeegie'.  A skill like this - I've heard one window cleaner call it an 'art' - is extremely difficult to describe.

But then I hear of extremely competent, experienced, 20 year plus window cleaners still detailing.

So has anyone any practicle advice on sqeegeeing without scrimming? 

Or can it only be done by lowering standards, leaving a little bit of a mess behind - and is it just a case of 'managing your customers expectations' (a euphimism for doing a sub-standard job)?

[windows_chepstow]

No brainer this one.  Just don't apply water up to the edge with your applicator.

Your squeegee will wipe the 'dry' area nicely if its dog-earred.

Your welcome (esp. 'Roo')

Graham, I suspect there'll be a 'grey area' left if I don't drag the water with my sqeegee to the edges.  But I'll keep your post in mind for Monday.  I'll give it a go (I'm sure I used to do this - not wet the edges - but I didn't find much of a difference) and then just wet the edges as it's easier too; than not too.

Anyone else got any other tips?

[matt]

i went through a stage of not wetting the edge (about 1")

sure enough the wet rubber cleans it

BUT i found the time it takes to carefully mop and not touch the edge, was about the same time it takes to quickly wipe around

[s.hughes]

I'm far from new to this game and I find I have to detail.
I have had many a customer come to me because the last w/c left dirt marks on the sides of the windows where he didnt detail.
I know it can be done but it is hard on pvc.
This may seem like a stupid question but how do you keep the applicater edges dry?

Steveyboy

[Marc's on the Glass, LLC]

There are a couple of ways to do it (besides not wetting the edge-you won't clean the glass if you don't wet the edge).  Each way takes a little extra time.

First way, slow down and work on your hand-eye coordination.  If you keep your edge just .5mm away from window's edge (super close but not touching).  This usually works best on the top side of the glass.  It does leave a miniscule water line, but so small you can't see it and it won't run.

Second, going down the sides of the glass, do almost the same thing.  Try touching the sides but extremely lightly and keep blade horizontal for as long as possible.  OR...
You can go down the side by using the back of your channel as a guide along the window frame, and put your blade at an angle towards bottom center of glasss.  Look at your rubber.  Once your angle is right, it should just touching the window's rubber seal.

I have noticed huge reductions in water remains when doing this.  However, you have to go real slow while doing it (this allows your water to channel away from the edge).  Depending on the size of your glass, it may be worth it.  Once your edges are done, the rest of the glass is a breeze.  But small windows just aren't worth it.

I hope this makes sense

[matt]

no, you just dont go upto the window edge with the applicator.

[Marc's on the Glass, LLC]

Yeah, that works unless you're dealing with elements like haevy pollen or dust.  Eventually, your edges will get cruddy.  I don't apply to the edges on windows that are lightly dirty.  Anything noticeably soiled, I wet everything.

[rosskesava]

Last year I went through the whole thing of not mopping the edges and all that.

If the job was real cheap then I did no detailing. The problem was I was not happy doing such a shoddy job.

Some people are happy for a cheap job and did not complain at all. It's just I'm not interested in working like that or doing a poor job of work.

I defie anyone to say they do a real good job with no detailing excluding commercial work.

If they say they can, please can they state how? With idiot langauge so as I can understand?

Thanks



 

[james44]

Hi lads i have copied this of peter`s  site



     How do I clean windows without detailing
« on: 22. Jan 2004 at 17:44 »    Quote Quote Modify Modify
Question:

I waste a lot of time detailing windows after squeegeeing them, do I have to?

Answer:
 
No 
 
Practice on a window, clean the window normally but do it very slowly, watch what is happening when you go across the top and down the sides, the marks that you are leaving behind are not there because of bad luck, they are there because something is happening to put them there.  Sometimes you will find on a particular window you leave nothing behind, this is not good luck, it is because of certain rubber mouldings keep the end of the rubber on the glass.  Now the times when you do leave something behind look very close and see why, the squeegee rubber is riding up on to the mouldings, this causes a gap between the glass and the squeegee rubber, which in turn leaves solution behind. 
 
First off make sure you have a soft rubber, hard is no good it will leave marks down the sides.  Probably the easiest way is to go across the top and down the sides at the proper angle, you want to go down the left side at this angle/ and down the right side at this angle\.  Now see what is happening 
 
Like I said it depends on the window, they are all different, if you can see, and understand what is causing the marks that you leave behind, then you are halfway there, it is just a case of perfecting your squeegee technique so that nothing is left behind.


practise  practise   practise 

[s.hughes]

I'm with you Ross but clear view and james has made a point and I will try it on Monday.

Steveyboy

[rosskesava]

Hi James44

Interseting postings. I hadn't really read Clear Views posting correctly or yours.

And How Much, I now agree. Both are good points. Thanks for pointing it out.

Clear View, that makes such sense. I think it's not a set rule for every window. That is a worthwhile though. Thanks for that.

I think maybe I have been a bit blinkered in trying to apply the same rules to every window.

We use soft rubbers and on Monday I'll buy some hard ones.

Sorry to sound daft, who is Peter?

Very interesting postings.

Cheers

[Ian_Giles]

This detailing, or lack of it is so hard to really put your finger on a solution that fits all windows.
Sometimes it is atmospheric conditions, other times it is a particular type of window, there is the one type of UPVC one that I always found a real pain
This is the one where the window seal seems to be recessed, the glass goes right to the UPVC part of the frame and then under it, and there is a small gap all the way around the glass, or rather between the glass and the frame it goes under.
They seem to have quite deep seated reveals too, which also makes squeegeeing a little more difficult.
You also need to make sure you do not have your applicator to wet, the detergent you use also has a bearing, if you  are using good old fairy liquid and have it too 'slimy' then you will find it even harder not to detail. The specialist liquids are best.

If the window are dirty then you have to wash all the edges, top included if you want to do a decent job, but even then you can help to reduce detailing after squeegeeing by detailing BEFORE you squeegee.
Yeah, yeah, I know, you are still wiping the edges, but providing you are not using a scrim or microfibre that is too wet to do this with it can leave you not needing to to 'dry' detail the window, and it is faster because you don't have to be fussy about it.

Different combinations of channel and rubber can make a difference too, 'dog earing' certainly makes a big difference, as does how much of the rubber you leave protruding from the ends of the channel.

It's just my own personal opinion, but I have found (at least for myself) that the Ettore channels (brass) and their soft compound rubbers to be the best, and better still when the channel is an old one with 'rounded' off ends
Another thing to watch out for is a warped/bent/twisted channel, though perhaps that doesn't have a great effect on reducing detailing, though it will affect your squeegeeing.

Sometimes, if you wish to do a top job then you have to detail at times.

As the saying goes; The devil is in the detail )


Ian

[Ian Rochester]

I find that for a perfect finish everytime, you need to do some amount of detailing, we have just recently started "dog earing" and that makes a huge difference to the amount of detailing required, but out of habit and personal preference we still detail with microfibre, it takes literally 2 seconds to do and you have peace of mind that it looks right

[keefuss69]

i agree lionheart, all my squeegies are "dog eared". but i still find myself scrimmin down the sides, and along the bottom, never at the top as the dog earing see's to it that i dont have to, and i still get an exellent result along the top of the window.

As for the sides,,, it takes less than 7 seconds to detail a window and about 9 for a patio door. so for me to just give it a quick scrim leaves me with peace of mind that the job is a good'un, and the custermer will be happy. another added bonus is that the scrims last way longer as there is not as much "wetness to dry up round the window"
happy cleaning eveyone

and remember........

VADER IS COMMING

[Paul Coleman]

Hi lads i have copied this of peter`s  site



     How do I clean windows without detailing
« on: 22. Jan 2004 at 17:44 »    Quote Quote Modify Modify
Question:

I waste a lot of time detailing windows after squeegeeing them, do I have to?

Answer:
 
No 
 
Practice on a window, clean the window normally but do it very slowly, watch what is happening when you go across the top and down the sides, the marks that you are leaving behind are not there because of bad luck, they are there because something is happening to put them there.  Sometimes you will find on a particular window you leave nothing behind, this is not good luck, it is because of certain rubber mouldings keep the end of the rubber on the glass.  Now the times when you do leave something behind look very close and see why, the squeegee rubber is riding up on to the mouldings, this causes a gap between the glass and the squeegee rubber, which in turn leaves solution behind. 
 
First off make sure you have a soft rubber, hard is no good it will leave marks down the sides.  Probably the easiest way is to go across the top and down the sides at the proper angle, you want to go down the left side at this angle/ and down the right side at this angle\.  Now see what is happening 
 
Like I said it depends on the window, they are all different, if you can see, and understand what is causing the marks that you leave behind, then you are halfway there, it is just a case of perfecting your squeegee technique so that nothing is left behind.


practise  practise   practise 

When you say "soft" rubber, are you referring to that stuff that was called "easy glide"?

[james44]

OOOOPS  www.windows-tools.com