[HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy)]

i would buy into a cleanitup franchise....i will pay 10 quid up front fee, then in return all i want is a say on cleanitup and maybe start kicking out some of the useless posters...like that scrimman, he never stays on topic.

[telboy]

Suprised Ian Lancaster has n't posted on this one

he is usually quick off the mark on franchises

[Londoner]

Suprised Ian Lancaster has n't posted on this one

he is usually quick off the mark on franchises

I'm afraid Ian thought I was having a go at him a couple of years ago when I really tore into a couple of posters who started saying how wonderul franchises were and how much money could be made from them.

I strongly suspected the two posters were in fact really the same person trying to use CIU promote some rubbish scheme he was wanting to foist on the gullable. So I came in strong and hard talking about sharks preying on mugs etc and rather offended Ian who wasn't my intended target. I have no doubt that Ian is fair and honest but from what I have seen not everyone is honest like Ian.

Lets face it, if you are a totally dishonest person with no scruples what so ever, setting up a dodgy francising business must seem like money for nothing. It doesn't matter what the actual business is to these people. They are just after releaving scared and worried people of their redundancy money. 

[bluez]

Suprised Ian Lancaster has n't posted on this one

he is usually quick off the mark on franchises

I'm afraid Ian thought I was having a go at him a couple of years ago when I really tore into a couple of posters who started saying how wonderul franchises were and how much money could be made from them.

I strongly suspected the two posters were in fact really the same person trying to use CIU promote some rubbish scheme he was wanting to foist on the gullable. So I came in strong and hard talking about sharks preying on mugs etc and rather offended Ian who wasn't my intended target. I have no doubt that Ian is fair and honest but from what I have seen not everyone is honest like Ian.

Lets face it, if you are a totally dishonest person with no scruples what so ever, setting up a dodgy francising business must seem like money for nothing. It doesn't matter what the actual business is to these people. They are just after releaving scared and worried people of their redundancy money. 

I understand where you are coming from Vince there are so many horror stories about franchising out there but is it not a bit cynical, a bit paranoid even to consign a whole business approach to the scrap heap without considering the franchises that have made people money.

Surely everyone in business is in it to make money it seems a bit harsh to tar all businesses that choose franchising as their business model as dishonest and lacking scruples.

I am not saying that they arnt out there, they are, but so are dodgy window cleaners if all our customers took the approach that a few window cleaners were rip off merchants therefore all window cleaners are rip off merchants we wouldnt have any customers.

Put simply allmost every new car bought in the uk is sold by a franchise, every time you go to the local shop there is a very good chance that the shop is part of a symbol group (a francise), when you buy your petrol yea its a franchise more than likely, buy fast food, get blinds made for your house, get new tyres for your van it endless there are franchises every where not all of them are man and van franchises but somewhere in nearly every business chain there is a franchise operating and most of them are doing so purely to make money. Fortunately most people in business value an ongoing customer so play it straight.


I am not promoting franchising just open minded, maybe I havent heard enough horror stories yet.

[gerard mcmanus]

Its not just about horror stories though is it. You take the like of spar shops, or anything that sells products. If it is a large franchise, they buy in bulk from one wholesaler and get large discounts that shop owners cant get on there own, so is a benefit to the public and owner because of attracting more business with lower prices.

Service industries like window cleaning are very different, because lets face it, if you find it hard to make a go at window cleaning and need a franchising company to lead you by the hand, you might be better of in Tesco's.

The only thing a franchising company can offer a window cleaner that they cant get on there own easily is a well known name. But if you look professional, I doubt members of the public will be bothered that much if they haven't heard of your company before, and you can offer reference to combat this.

[bluez]

Agree with a lot of that Ladder garder except the last paragraph, I am not aware of a window cleaning franchise that offers more than what you say at present but I wouldnt rule out franchising as a business model just because someone hasnt come up with a viable offering for our industry yet.

[gerard mcmanus]

yeah I agree with that too, If they had a huge sales team that come in, people who know what's involved and what it is actually like window cleaning and understands the problems some jobs can have, and has a set pricing system the supports the economics, as well as offering reduced equipement and vehicles because they buy in bulk then ok yes, it maybe very much viable.

[Davo]

Suprised Ian Lancaster has n't posted on this one

he is usually quick off the mark on franchises

I'm afraid Ian thought I was having a go at him a couple of years ago when I really tore into a couple of posters who started saying how wonderul franchises were and how much money could be made from them.

I strongly suspected the two posters were in fact really the same person trying to use CIU promote some rubbish scheme he was wanting to foist on the gullable. So I came in strong and hard talking about sharks preying on mugs etc and rather offended Ian who wasn't my intended target. I have no doubt that Ian is fair and honest but from what I have seen not everyone is honest like Ian.

Lets face it, if you are a totally dishonest person with no scruples what so ever, setting up a dodgy francising business must seem like money for nothing. It doesn't matter what the actual business is to these people. They are just after releaving scared and worried people of their redundancy money. 

Nope slumpbuster was one and I was the other, you spat your dummy out of the pram and threatened to leave the forum. Total over reaction on your part, I think you even accused Ian Lancaster of using the forum to groom "victims", this was after he had been asked to give a talk on franchising within the window cleaning industry at Windex !!!

As for coming in strong etc etc, I think you just reinforced my opinion that you are a narrow minded bigot. You didnt feel the topic should even be allowed to be discussed...on a forum.

Oh and also the topic wasnt about how fantastic it was at all, also money and the abundance of it was never mentioned.....selective memory syndrome I think.


Mark



Mark

[bluez]

yep that'll kill a thread Davo, good job.

[Platinum NW]

The value of a franchise depends on the overall turnover of the business. A frachise like subway have had thousands spent on advertising to gain a household name that people recognise and see from day to day. This is a reputable business to buy a franchise off with a good strong brand name

There WONT be any strong brand names coming from window cleaning that will advertise on national tv and become an household name therefore a franchise in this business should NEVER be considered.

PS watch out for Platinum Contracts NW between the corrie adds tonight..

[bluez]

What if J.V. Price decided to sell a franchise of their succesful business model to a businessman based in the south east or another region that they are not active in.

Their contacts would be hugely valuable as would their knowledge and experience of the industry. I know that this is a considerably different proposition to a domestic window cleaning franchise but would everyone be so quick to discount the possibilities when the company in question is established and reputable.

Sorry for bringing JV Price into this they have nothing to do with this discussion except that they appear to be a well known and developed business.

I would also hazard a guess that tv advertising would not be the marketing and development route of choice for a business of this type.
 

[sgibsoncleaning]

on ebay lately there has been several complete van setups for sale. the story is the same, 6 months old new job forces sale.
people have invested their redundency into a van and kit but then cant get the work quick enough to pay the bills.
the only advantage i see with franchising is earning from day one.
we know how to knock and how to build a round but some want the security of earning straight away

[Davo]

yep that'll kill a thread Davo, good job.

Nah its still going.....

The value of a franchise depends on the overall turnover of the business. A frachise like subway have had thousands spent on advertising to gain a household name that people recognise and see from day to day. This is a reputable business to buy a franchise off with a good strong brand name

There WONT be any strong brand names coming from window cleaning that will advertise on national tv and become an household name therefore a franchise in this business should NEVER be considered.

PS watch out for Platinum Contracts NW between the corrie adds tonight..

The value of a franchise depends on several factors, the number 1 factor is profitability......

So because the franchise hasnt got a nationally recognised name then it shouldnt be considered, does that mean even if the business offers a good return on investment and is built on a solid financial model by an ethical franchisor then its a waste of money, time and effort?.

Mark

[tony talbot]

if there's enough work to start a franchise in your area, then there's enough work to start your own buisness without the franchise fees, simples

[Londoner]

Suprised Ian Lancaster has n't posted on this one

he is usually quick off the mark on franchises

I'm afraid Ian thought I was having a go at him a couple of years ago when I really tore into a couple of ters who started saying how wonderul franchises were and how much money could be made from them.

I strongly suspected the two posters were in fact really the same person trying to use CIU promote some rubbish scheme he was wanting to foist on the gullable. So I came in strong and hard talking about sharks preying on mugs etc and rather offended Ian who wasn't my intended target. I have no doubt that Ian is fair and honest but from what I have seen not everyone is honest like Ian.

Lets face it, if you are a totally dishonest person with no scruples what so ever, setting up a dodgy francising business must seem like money for nothing. It doesn't matter what the actual business is to these people. They are just after releaving scared and worried people of their redundancy money. 

Nope slumpbuster was one and I was the other, you spat your dummy out of the pram and threatened to leave the forum. Total over reaction on your part, I think you even accused Ian Lancaster of using the forum to groom "victims", this was after he had been asked to give a talk on franchising within the window cleaning industry at Windex !!!

As for coming in strong etc etc, I think you just reinforced my opinion that you are a narrow minded bigot. You didnt feel the topic should even be allowed to be discussed...on a forum.

Oh and also the topic wasnt about how fantastic it was at all, also money and the abundance of it was never mentioned.....selective memory syndrome I think.


Mark



Mark

No you wern't one of the two posters who was trying to promote franchises at that time. Not with that name anyway but why do you hide behind a name. I can't even remenber The name(s) that were used because there were so many hookey names flying around.

I got into several arguements on different threads and if it starts up again I will wade in again because I am as you say a narrow minded bigot and proud to be so if it prevents crooks and conmen using this forum for their own purposes.

Please try though to put your case using reasoned arguements rather than personal attacks, they don't work on me.

Other sections of the cleaning industry have been plagued with franchising schemes that have ended in tears. If you can demonstrate a scheme that works - fine. However, until that time......

[ftp]

Here's one as an example:

    http://www.staycleanwindows.co.uk/wfp/franchising-3.html     

Taken at random off the net because it's close to me.
So that's fifteen grand for an ro system and some basic kit. 
No van 
No customers 
Bargain 

[Londoner]

Exactly right ftp!

The facts speak pretty clearly for themselves. This thread has been running for quite a long time and we haven't had a single person on here saying that they took out a franchise and it was the best thing they ever did.

If franchises were so great there should be loads of happy smiling franchisees on here and there are none. What does that tell you?

There have been quite a few schemes over the years and most seem to disappear after a while, I don't try to keep track of them but when they go you can kiss your £15 grand goodbye. Its not just about the window cleaning. A lot of franchises try to make it appear that your money is safe by saying they will allow you to sell your franchise on when you want to retire in a few years time. You can't re-sell a franchise when the company has folded.

A couple of years ago there were two separate franchise vans in my area. They were leafletting and door knocking all over the place. Both have gone now. I would be really interested to know the full story but as I know one of them was quoting £30-35 for an average three bed semi I can guess they just starved to death.

Thats another dubious aspect of all sorts of franchises , they often come with a "marketing plan" that suggests that by going with them you will make a lot more money than working as an independant. Well if that marketing plan was to charge £35 a house I have to say its not much of a plan.

There was an American guy on here a few months back trying to promote some book he was selling on how to market window cleaning or something of the sort. Where is he now?, they come and they go.

[ftp]

The locksmith franchise I looked at was very pricey. I forget the exact figures but it was somewhere in the region of 40k. This included training, kit, and a small van. They gave you some work to get you started, a telphone contact from their head office - the idea was that you covered a specific area and they would then send you to their jobs.
You were expected to generate most of your work. The sticking point for me was a) you took out a loan to get started b) they creamed off a percentage of all your work including your own generated work and finally they had total control over the direction your business was heading ie. if they decided fitting burgalar alarms was the way forward then that's what you had to to.
All the crap about using a branded name with their stationary and van wrap is there for one purpose only - to promote the franchise - not the franchisee!
The reason I went into this business was freedom from any boss, the simplicity of the job, low start up costs and total control.
Most franchises seem to be there to suck the life out of any gullable/desperate operative who can't think for themselves.
I'd like to see the figures of some of the so called sucesses and see just how much money is creamed off from the profits.

[ftp]

Also, have you ever looked into the oven cleaning franchises?

What a joke! Haven't seen many wealthy oven cleaners round our way lately.

[Londoner]

I went to the Franchise Show a few years back when it was still held at Wembley. I wasn't interested in going down the franchise route but as a taxi driver I got free tickets so I went in and had a look.

There were all sorts of franchises but the worst one that caught my eye was a franchise for re-enamelling baths! Several very similar chips and dents ones for cars that looked a bit implausable too.

A lot were for things like travel agents and High Street shops that you wouldn't even realise were franchises.

The things like window cleaning, carpet cleaning, chips and dents etc were really bottom end of the market and  attracted the bottom end of the market customers.

I'm told there are number of Handyman franchises springing up  with names like "Odd Job Bob" which are likely to attract redundant tradesmen.
It seems to me this is another example of somebody trying to establish a franchise business merely to harvest the vunerable.