[SherwoodCleaningSe]

To earn £75k a year you would need to do about 15 places at £20 5 days a week 52 weeks of the year, no days off. When you account for weather spoiling at least a day a week and having 4 weeks holiday your looking at 20 places a day.  This is without taking in account canvassing time.

Most window cleaners would be happy to turn over £28K let alone make that in profit.

Simon.

[Alistair@AWC]

I bet if there was a poll, the majority of cleaners here would be northern, they don't seem to understand the wealth of the south, but hey thats not there fault.

User,

I did start to right a message as to why I'm able to answer your question during the day whilst having a successful Window Cleaning Business, but got bored and deleted it - I as I'm sure everyone else on here, don't really care what you do!

Quit your poxy job, buy a Concept2o system, run it for 12 months and retire abroad a Millionaire  :

MUG!!

[john tomkins]

Awww,we'll have to wait till he goes back to work tomorrow for the reply as he only posts between 10am and 5:30pm

[ftp]

The whole post is a wind up.
In twelve weeks from scratch the so called relative earns 3000 a month. So he would have earnt that in the last four weeks. What did he earn in the eight weeks before? When did he have time to canvass? What a load of lies.

Due respect to Concept20 but I think this has nothing to do with them. They seemed like a good company when I had interest in their system.

[Clive McDonald]

Not sure if this is a wind up or not. However they do mean, hitting the right area, with the right demographic, with proven systems and marketing.You'd be surprised ftp at what can be achieved.

Of course, most people think, i can do that. And they go on to start up and create their own version which is usually a more muted success of one kind or another.It never occurs to them that they might have done better following a prescribed route.

[ftp]

Slumpy twelve weeks from scratch? How many first cleans is that? How likely would the work be compact? What are the chances of all of it falling on the same day in the right area? A total newbie who's never cleaned windows before?

No chance.  :

[leapstallbuildings]

Hmm, you might be right with that one..

I was running through figures with concept2o and the figures they sent me were for £75k turn over taking home about £45k in first year of business.    Hence my thoughts about getting into it!

I have not heard about anyone NOT hitting them figures (you would think there would be some form of bad press if this was the case) .... 

 

I don't take anything remotely like that and I've been W/Cing since '91.  I suppose obtaining 75k may be possible in year one but it would mean you needing to pay canvassers and marketers a lot of money (not to mention other W/Cers) so most of your turnover would be expenditure.  Also, you would probably need a fair bit of money behind you to start off in order to manage cashflow.  If you could get to that in year one, year two would be a lot easier if you didn't want to expand any more because you would have the work and would not need to pay anyone to get more in.  Actually cleaning £75k of windows in a year on your own would be a very tall order though so you would probably need some help and that can cost.
All of the above assumes perfect self discipline on your part, living and breathing work all the time and probably being seriously knackered out within 2 - 3 years - unless you get others to do a lot of the graft for you.

[cozy]

I think anyone who sells a system will do their best to convince a potential buyer that WCing with their system will earn them good money in the first year. Here's a small note to explain how it worked for me. I live in Germany where the only thing to compare to UK is my squaddie custies. I started from naff all and had no idea of WCing. I went with an old mate from the army who had started milk round and a WC round on the side of that. He showed me what I could "knock out " in an hour polishing windows. Cut it short, off I went, canvassing and learning, I even employed some old hand, that had been cleaning for about a thousand years and he could clean faster than most, with his eyes closed and standing upside down on a ladder.

He tought me loads of stuff about this game.Whatever, I had no competition at all in 6 different areas, all with at least 400 potential custies each, I was a Brit, providing a service for Brits. A little bit of home from home if you like. So I printed my own leaflets on a C 64 PC (remember those?) and the return was about 60 %. In my first couple of months I banged on and had a turnover of about 1500 quid a month. Low costs too. Ladders bucket etc etc, diesel, dogs danglies I thought.

years later, a turnover of about 70,000 because I had gone into cmmercial work, big printing works, massive hospital in a place called Minden, half an hour away from where I lived. Already employing at least 4 guys part time, I thought I had arrived. Then I looked at the stress and hours that I put in, my marriage went down hill as I was only interested in my business. the rest is history.The point I'm trying to make is this, if WFP had been around in 89 to 93 over here, I would have earned alot more. No way would it have been 75K though, even today, with WFP, everyone has competition and prices being pushed lower all the time. Whoever told the guy he could turnover 75K in his first year, needs a smack.

I now only work 3 to 5 hours a day, with my wife. Yes I do appear lazy, but life is too short for some of us to spend chasing Dragons Den. good luck to any people with ambition, but try not to ram it down everyones neck.

75K is a sales pitch from Concept I suspect.

[windowswashed]

A fool and their money are easily parted because greed always wins. Knowledge comes in two forms, from wisdom and from experience. How you choose to make your decision is up to you. Good luck, you'll need it. I wish you well.

[Clive McDonald]

And good luck to you too window washed because you'll never know.

[windowswashed]

And good luck to you too window washed because you'll never know.

Personally I'm not really bothered. I've tried the employers route. Been there, done it. Had to quit work a few years back for health reasons. I'm happy where I am now (self employed), concentrating on commercial work, doing just enough to pay the bills, putting aside for a rainy day account and working part time appreciating quality social time with friends and family.

[gerard mcmanus]

User001

I am from Glasgow so what do I know about your wealth and money but I will give you my input anyway.

If you had an employee and yourself working packed WFP rounds from day dot you could make a 75K turnover, and if you paid the employee say 20k add expenses you might be left with something in the region of 45k profit pre tax etc.

Now I am trad so I really cant say much for sure on a WFP'r expenses, but yeah I think it could be done, in the first year next to no chance, but after a good few years at it yeah.

Infact the only way I could see someone walking into window cleaning and taking that in the first year is, if the had a stack of cash, bought two full rounds off someone else, two vans full kit etc and hacked away at all year.

I imagine if you are not a plant, that you have had some crazy idea about earning another 17k this year to afford your long holiday, and are now throwing the rattle out of the pram because your are being told your naive and ideas are unrealistic.

Well some times the truth is hard to hear and you are not going to like it mate but it your choice whether you choose to listen or not. Avoid a mistake by listening to the experienced or take your chance to prove us wrong and you may learn the hard way and make your own mistakes, which I think is likely going from what I have read so far.

Do your homework mate big time before you stake your livelihood on something, if I were you go onto windowcleaning rounds forsale and look at the average round values of WFP users, and how many years it has taken them to build it, and take a good long long hard think, long and hard.

Oh and by the way, allot of the round Scotland or England aren't as far apart as you seem to think.

[Blue Frog Systems]

If you build up a window cleaning business up to £75k in your first year make sure you have a good divorce lawyer, a funeral plan when you kick the bucket, life insurance and dont forget that if you have kids that the CSA will screw you over on that wage !

Good luck and keep us posted regularly..... sorry - your going to be knocking 24/7 so no more net time

[stephen s]

don't do it mate,  marriage is the first step to divorce.





oh sorry but when you said your thinking of taking the plunge I kinda read between the lines 

[user001]

ok ok, I’m surprised..  I was adamant that I was not coming back to the forum after yesterdays post (rattles out of pram.. maybe).  But I couldn’t resist looking at the comments – and actually surprised by the reasoned responses!

Anyway.. had a long chat with the c20 people… turns out the figures sent to me were based on a franchise package (what relative is doing) and is supposed proven method based on 1 employee at 12k a year for canvassing, driving and rolling system out and they even got details of other w/cleaners using the system.

Anywhoo… I was not looking at the franchise, just buying the gear (this is on finance so it wouldn’t be 9k in 1st year and renting a van at vivaro at £75 a week and working on my own. And they have told me that they can not say that 75k would definitely happen as that method has been proven with that package and not someone just taking the system (I did ask them about that, but they are not offering anymore in this area).

However, they seem to think that £45k would be more realistic in the first year…  now I know what you guys are saying.. but if your cut from the right stuff, then why can’t you aim high and achieve?

There was a guy on Dragons den, turned over 6k a month in his first 6 months as a window cleaner  - so it can be done. (or have i read that wrong!)

In regards to my area im looking at, the houses average 8,000-10,000 square foot in size (which is HUGE) ..

Anyway, you guys, despite my rants, have grounded me slightly, so i do actually appreciate that... and i am taking your points on board... but i like to argue and reason this out - after all, its a life changing decision (either good or for the worse) so i'm trying to cover all angles.

Anyway, im not saying sorry for my post yesterday but i probably could of worded it better and the comments about the north/south divide were not needed. 

(by the way, its 9:58am... so that blows your comment right out the water  )

[Rogue Trader]

Stay off my patch 

[Mike #1]

one thing its nice to think you will get the really big houses but it ain't guarntee you would be better off looking right across the board for all the leasing options and most probably look to buying a well established round instant money to give time to build the business to level you want and money to pay your bills while building the business up

[leapstallbuildings]

ok ok, I’m surprised..  I was adamant that I was not coming back to the forum after yesterdays post (rattles out of pram.. maybe).  But I couldn’t resist looking at the comments – and actually surprised by the reasoned responses!

Anyway.. had a long chat with the c20 people… turns out the figures sent to me were based on a franchise package (what relative is doing) and is supposed proven method based on 1 employee at 12k a year for canvassing, driving and rolling system out and they even got details of other w/cleaners using the system.

Anywhoo… I was not looking at the franchise, just buying the gear (this is on finance so it wouldn’t be 9k in 1st year and renting a van at vivaro at £75 a week and working on my own. And they have told me that they can not say that 75k would definitely happen as that method has been proven with that package and not someone just taking the system (I did ask them about that, but they are not offering anymore in this area).

However, they seem to think that £45k would be more realistic in the first year…  now I know what you guys are saying.. but if your cut from the right stuff, then why can’t you aim high and achieve?

There was a guy on Dragons den, turned over 6k a month in his first 6 months as a window cleaner  - so it can be done. (or have i read that wrong!)

In regards to my area im looking at, the houses average 8,000-10,000 square foot in size (which is HUGE) ..

Anyway, you guys, despite my rants, have grounded me slightly, so i do actually appreciate that... and i am taking your points on board... but i like to argue and reason this out - after all, its a life changing decision (either good or for the worse) so i'm trying to cover all angles.

Anyway, im not saying sorry for my post yesterday but i probably could of worded it better and the comments about the north/south divide were not needed. 

(by the way, its 9:58am... so that blows your comment right out the water  )

I suppose that you can build fast but in order to do so, you need to spend a lot on canvassing/marketing/advertising.  So building fast squeezes profit margin.  If you build more slowly and do all or most of the work yourself (at first anyway), you will get a lower turnover but a higher profit margin.

Building fast is more appropriate for someone with capital already behind them and/or someone who can live on a very tight budget OR someone who is prepared to go into debt initially (if the banks permit) and can cope with all the stress that this can bring.

[R W C]

If you was to say you wanted to build a business to eaen 75k a year to sell it in 4-5 years time then your achievements will be realistice but probs not as a 1 man band, and probs not on a domesic round only, you need to canvass real hard and probs not on your own, youd then need to do all the 1st cleans on these propertys which can sometimes take upto 3 times as long compared to a regular custy, so 6 months down the line youve got a jugling act as youll be doing your regular custys, plus new 1st cleans youve just canvassed then go out in the evening to canvass for more work, this work is very unlikely to be compact work so lots ofs traveling to take into concideraton, it really does take time to build a good round, youll get some absoultely rubbish jobs that proberly havent got a wc due to bad payers, bad access, bad frames, not today thank you custys etc etc etc, now when I leaflets drop or canvass I proberly miss out half the roads and houses now that I would of canvassed in the past, also you wont be as quick or expierenced as most of the guys on here as its not as simple as spraying water on windows, when I 1st started I made loads of mistakes that could of saved me lots of money, also why go for a big flashy van with a expensive sytem when at the end of it when you come to sell the peson buying will probs only want the round and not the system and van, when I started I had £10,000 which I bought a van, system, poles, etc, in my 1st year I didnt break even once you take off all my, fuel, van service, mot, new clutch, tax, public liability, water charges, phone bill, new poles, brushes, filters, resin, ni, bank charges, wcp, advertising in mags/ leaflets etc, sign writting, ladders, trad tools, the list goes on and on, once your past your 1st year most of these things wont be rebought etc as youll be getting recommended so to do it in your 1st year to me is a no no.

Your seem quite clued up and willing to listen by what ive read and im sure youll make the right decision,

Well any way im off to drop daughter to club then off to work,as these school holidays cause shorter days for those of us with kids so were not lazy just have other commitments too.

Chris

[aiminvestor]

On the assumption this isn't a wind up!

What figures were Concept quoting you for their system?

Do you know the cost of their full package?

What hot water system do they use in their vans?

I'm not interested in their service, but would like to know the figures.