[Simon Carter]

That's £25.00 per hour for a 10 hour day, both of which is not unreasonable, but it's this easy bit that has provoked many of the responses. The assumption is that we are talking about sustaining this, week in week out. Anyone can bust a gut for a week or two or identify enough quality business 'easily' for the odd exceptional day or maybe week, but for a month, every month !. For a start, it's dark by 4 in mid winter. Also, we've all worked the odd few hours in bad weather, but who would consider a 10 hour day in driving rain & howling gails easy?. Most of us would go home.  As a self employed, one man band, there are so many factors that come in to play when you are genuinely considering what is possible & sustainable.

[Duke]

I can make up to about £120 in roughly 5 hours a day...non-stop, 5 days a week. That will be between 12 to 16 jobs per day, depending on their size. After that, I'm knackered. IF..I had the energy and youth on my side...I could probably do 20 or more a day, but to be honest, if I've made over a ton in a day, I'm happy...I'd rather spend my free time riding my bike, lazing at my static caravan by the river...or off scuba diving. I work to finance my pleasure and pay the bills, as soon as I can stop, I do.

[UBA1]

£200-£250 easily?
No way. Not a chance, there may be the odd and very lucky experienced pro with several years working as a window cleaner getting up to that rate, but anyone reading this thread as a newbie will be being given very inaccurate information.

As an individual, if you can average around the £100 a day mark you are doing ok.
A great many will earn more than that, and many will earn less.
BUT IT IS REASONABLE TO EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO EARN £500 PER WEEK.

If you think you are going to buy a round as a complete newbie to window cleaning and earn £200 a DAY you will be in for a sad and disillusioned awakening.

It'll take you at least 3 months before you can become even reasonably adapt at the job, several months before you really get up to speed and in the groove.

If you read these forums, the average price, for the average 3 bed semi is probably around the £6.00-£7.00 mark.
Bare in mind I am talking AVERAGE there.
You will after you have got some experience be able to do 3 houses like this in an hour, 4 per hour if they are all virtually next door to one another.
But they are rarely all so close together, they are rarely all the same type of houses, or the same size.
You will not work for 8 uninterupted hours, time is lost throught travelling, talking to customers, driving off to find somewhere to use the loo, buying a pastie and so on.
Throughout a 9 till 5 day your productive time will be between 5 and 7 hours.

If all your accounts were 3 bed semi's and you were charging £6.50 per house, managed to do 3 an hour and also managed to work 6 hours you would turn over £117 in the day.
And don't forget, you can't work till 5pm for a lot of the winter, it's too dark.
When you apply time and motion studies to your working day you will see.

But to get back to the original thrust of the post.

The physical size of a round is totally irrelevent, it isn't how many, it's how much.

As I said above, if you are doing 20 accounts a day that is 100 houses a week, 400 a month. And THAT is PHYSICALLY a large account.
But you won't have all 3 bed semi's with just 10 or 11 normal casement windows in them
Now if someone is bragging they do 600 houses every month all by themselves they must be cleaning one bedroom grannie flats

There are just too many variables to consider, and if someone has a round that are all shops, they may well have lots of accounts that only take them 2 or 3 minutes to clean, less even on some (I know, that describes much of my work) add in a big office block and one account is taking up to 5 hours to do.

I'm hungry, need my breakfast

Ian

I never said form day one did i??

I said previous customers are doing £200 + per day, and i`ve sold some to forum members on here...

If you can`t do £200 per day after 4-6 mths on traditional you have a poorly priced round and NOT compact work...

[windows_chepstow]

If you can`t do £200 per day after 4-6 mths on traditional you have a poorly priced round and NOT compact work...

I think Ian's point was that people considering window cleaner read some off the cuff remark about how easy it is to earn big money, in just a few hours and then embark on the road of dissolutionment.

This thread's starting to sound like this one (How to earn £200 quid a day):

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5529.msg41526#msg41526

I've been at window cleaning for just over two years, and I'm earning £600 per month more than I was doing last year.  My cash flow is excellent too.
We don't yet earn £200.00 per day (I work with my Missis, who won't sacrifice quality for speed, no matter how much I beat her), but some days we get close(ish) in five or six hours work.

Speaking of which, (work), it's stopped raining so I'm off out.

[UBA1]

If you can`t do £200 per day after 4-6 mths on traditional you have a poorly priced round and NOT compact work...

I think Ian's point was that people considering window cleaner read some off the cuff remark about how easy it is to earn big money, in just a few hours and then embark on the road of dissolutionment.

This thread's starting to sound like this one (How to earn £200 quid a day):

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5529.msg41526#msg41526

I've been at window cleaning for just over two years, and I'm earning £600 per month more than I was doing last year.  My cash flow is excellent too.
We don't yet earn £200.00 per day (I work with my Missis, who won't sacrifice quality for speed, no matter how much I beat her), but some days we get close(ish) in five or six hours work.

Speaking of which, (work), it's stopped raining so I'm off out.

2 people don`t work as quick as 1...For example...1 shiner does 20-30 per hr=£160-£240 per day...2 shiners as apair approx £35-£50 per hr=££280-£400 per day.

[matt2323]

minimum price of 15 pound and you will rake it in.but it takes time to build up at these prices

[Duke]

speak for yourself....

[Ian_Giles]

UBA1 is correct in one thing, two people do not work twice as fast as 1 person!

But I live and work around Chepstow, South Wales, there are many window cleaners in the area, and I only know of 1 guy (who is from just outside what I would consider my cachment area, but we overlap) who earns upwards of £200 a day.
Inside any of the estates in town you simply will not earn that kind of money, you just cannot go around charging twice what any other window cleaner is charging and hope to get away with it.
Around here an average semi will be around £7.50 or so, lower still in some parts of town, doesn't matter how professional you are you won't stand a snowballs of charging £15.00 as a minimum charge.
10 miles up the road is a town called Lydney, prices are tighter still up there.

Location counts for an awful lot.

I have now gone over to WFP (just over a year ago) and that has definitely made a big difference for me personally.
Prior to WFP I was only doing what I needed to to get by, was utterly fed up with climbing ladders day in, day out, I don't even think I would now be a window cleaner if I had not changed
I was doing 15k per year, that has jumped 5k within a year, and will probably jump another 5k quite comfortably. If I am submitting 25k to the tax man I will be more than happy.
But to double that? Or even treble that?
75 grand a year cleaning domestic accounts?
I believe that were I sufficiently motivated I could achieve 30k Any single window cleaner cleaning only domestic work and earning that much money is on serious money for a window cleaner.
That is the high end of potential earnings for one of us.
Very few will earn that.
Fewer still will earn 50k plus.
Some may well do so, but most will think they are doing well if they are topping 20k.

Ian

[UBA1]

I`ve said it before and i`ll say it again...

I sell rounds in Surrey, Sussex, Kent, essex, Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, herts, Beds, and now Norfolk...ALL, I SAY,  ALL the guys ARE doing in and around, AND over £200 per day.

The surrey and Kent chaps, are doing anywhere between £30-£45 per hour, every hour. The WFP lads who have purchased rounds un affluent areas of surrey, ARE doing £50+ EASILY with WFP, and sometimes more...NOT Bull**it, this is FACT!!!

[Ian_Giles]

UBA1,

Location, location, location

Try getting a round that will pay you £100 a day in the Valleys.....You can buy a house up there with a £100 deposit

WFP will boost your income, no argument there.

I'm sure the tax man could tell us what the average window cleaner in any area will be earning, and I don't mean the lumped in average, but the income range of what the majority of cleaners will be earning.
The affluent South East will be higher than most places, Surrey, Essex and so on, we all know that.
I'm not accusing you of lying UBA1, but you are the exception, not the rule.

I know of no one man band cleaners that are VAT reg on domestic work, on £300 a day you would have to be, totally unatainable for most of us.
78 grand a year is a staggering income.
So too is 52 grand.
It takes a very special person to earn that sort of money, if you are up at those lofty reaches and are building and selling rounds of such high calibre then I absolutely hold my hat off too you, I wish I had half of your drive and ability.

Ian

[UBA1]

UBA1,

Location, location, location

Try getting a round that will pay you £100 a day in the Valleys.....You can buy a house up there with a £100 deposit

WFP will boost your income, no argument there.

I'm sure the tax man could tell us what the average window cleaner in any area will be earning, and I don't mean the lumped in average, but the income range of what the majority of cleaners will be earning.
The affluent South East will be higher than most places, Surrey, Essex and so on, we all know that.
I'm not accusing you of lying UBA1, but you are the exception, not the rule.

I know of no one man band cleaners that are VAT reg on domestic work, on £300 a day you would have to be, totally unatainable for most of us.
78 grand a year is a staggering income.
So too is 52 grand.
It takes a very special person to earn that sort of money, if you are up at those lofty reaches and are building and selling rounds of such high calibre then I absolutely hold my hat off too you, I wish I had half of your drive and ability.

Ian

Ian, with no disrespect to you or other shiners, quality rounds can be built, and there are many people who can vouch for the quality rounds i`ve supplied over the years.

I spent time and careful planning training my canvassers to get the correct compact work, and all my clients are very, very impressed...Currently they are trained in traditional, as i feel this won`t hit their pocket, but as time goes on they may want to enter the WFP scenario.

Maybe i`m just a fast shiner, but the truth is, i can do 5/6x3 standard semis in 1hr. Again people who know me will vouch for that, and  that`s not even going flat out...therefore i would charge £7/8 per house earning £40-£48 per hour.

I appreciate not everyone can knock `em out that quick, but even just half that is gonna give close £25 per hour.

Most of the clients that buy rounds are given 5 intensive working days, before they start their round, and when they do, they normally earn from day 1 approx £75-£90 per day, Month 2 approx £115-£140 per day, and month 3 approx £150-£180 per day,as time goes on, they will obviously still speed up.

[Simon Carter]

This canvassing bit ..... very interesting. Care to elaborate?. I've tried to recruit canvassers & paid them £10.00 for every lead that I convert into a regular customer. I think that's an ok deal, but can I get anyone to respond !. I generally have to fall back on my own efforts. Canvassers are a special breed, in my experience very hard to find. If any good they'll be off selling bigger ticket items with big commissions.
I'm going to be surprised if you are prepared to go into too much detail, but in the spirit of the forum, I for one would be grateful if you are willing to share with us your expertese, not least of all bearing in mind not only that you are obviously unearthing a steady stream of new customers, but also getting them to commit to above average prices.

[AuRavelling79]

I think a balance between Ian's point of view and the £200 plus point of view needs to be struck.

It will be demoralising to many who start off thinking  they can do quickly earn £200 a day and because they lack motivation, are less organised on one hand or are in a "poorer" area with a need to get immediate cashflow on the other -  begin to struggle.

But I don't like being told that I cannot earn better money - it is entirely possible to be professional about your round - constantly pruning and weeding it, dropping less profitable work and replacing it with better stuff.

Simply through natural growth I am asked at least once a week to clean someone elses windows, my round is full so I price up new work more profitably and look to sell on, drop, even give away less profitable stuff.

By scheduling half a day a fortnight to canvass commercial work I have picked up two small businesses and a small block of flats in the last six weeks. This all adds up to "only" an extra £120 every two months - but it only takes me three hours. A lot of my round earns me £20 per hour and I am happy with that, but am aiming to increase that to £25 per hour and on a typical seven hour day I will be near to the £200 mark.

I want to average £200 per day - I've some way to go - but Ian, please don't, while aiming to be realistic,  inadvertently stifle my ambition to improve my income.

[UBA1]

Recruiting canvassers has always been a problem, whether it`s double glazing, British gas, or even us shiners.

I certainly don`t mind to a certain degree of telling you how to gain canvassers, and no, NEVER pay them £10 per lead, totally wrong way to go about it...Like most sales, ALWAYS work on commission basis, more incentive for them that way!

I give out bonuses for good quality work, and the more customers per month they produce, the higher their commission!

I won`t go into how i do this, but lets just say, i look after my team. They earn most canvassing days an average of £20 per hour, some will reach occasionally £50-£60 per hour, then in quieter periods virtually bugger all!

[rosskesava]

Hi UBA1

Maybe i`m just a fast shiner, but the truth is, i can do 5/6x3 standard semis in 1hr

12 minutes a semi for one person?

Then taking into account moving the ladders, arkward angles, getting round the backs of the houses, locked gates, getting the stuff off the van, putting it back and so on.

And clean maybe upwards of 20 paines of glass whether big or little?

All in under 12 minutes?

With 3 of us we would be very hard pushed but one person on their own?

Then you wrote

Again people who know me will vouch for that, and  that`s not even going flat out

Apart from the false argument to give weight to what you wrote (sorry) of people to vouch for you, 12 minutes is not flat out? ? ?

I don't want to appear rude but I don't believe it.

I won`t go into how i do this, but lets just say, i look after my team. They earn most canvassing days an average of £20 per hour, some will reach occasionally £50-£60 per hour, then in quieter periods virtually bugger all!

I won't go there but .................

[UBA1]

Hi UBA1

Maybe i`m just a fast shiner, but the truth is, i can do 5/6x3 standard semis in 1hr

12 minutes a semi for one person?

Then taking into account moving the ladders, arkward angles, getting round the backs of the houses, locked gates, getting the stuff off the van, putting it back and so on.

And clean maybe upwards of 20 paines of glass whether big or little?

All in under 12 minutes?

With 3 of us we would be very hard pushed but one person on their own?

Then you wrote

Again people who know me will vouch for that, and  that`s not even going flat out

Apart from the false argument to give weight to what you wrote (sorry) of people to vouch for you, 12 minutes is not flat out? ? ?

I don't want to appear rude but I don't believe it.

I won`t go into how i do this, but lets just say, i look after my team. They earn most canvassing days an average of £20 per hour, some will reach occasionally £50-£60 per hour, then in quieter periods virtually bugger all!

I won't go there but .................

Then come to where i live and i`ll prove just that...are you telling me a straight forward 3 bed semi (not bays) i.e, 2 flat windows at the top front, 1 or 2 at the bottom, maybe a landing on the side at the top, and 2 at top and bottom round the back, plus front and back door, you can`t do that less than 12 mins???

[UBA1]

UBA1 lives on Fantasy Island with that midget whos mates all live in tiny houses.

Meaning?

[rosskesava]

Hi UBA1

2 flat windows at the top front, 1 or 2 at the bottom, maybe a landing on the side at the top, and 2 at top and bottom round the back, plus front and back door,

What can I say to that. There are literally thousand of properties like that around where I live all next to each other all with straight forwards easy access.

Being realistic, apart from when you wrote 3 bedroom semi's, you did not make that qualification, what does the term '3 bedroom semi' conjure up in most people's minds who are window cleaners?

To me, it's a question of realism that comes from experience. I'm a window cleaner like most on this forum and most of us have a good idea of whether or not a job can be done a bit quicker, a lot quicker or 3 or 4 times as fast.

Also, you know it's virtually garaunteed that I'll never go to where you live just to watch you prove your point. So that means you have not been, or will not be disproved. That is another false arguement like 'people who know me will vouch for me' etc'.

I'll stick to what I know based on the experience I have so far as a window cleaner and I've made my own mind up as to the truth of what you write based on that experience.

Why not get someone to video you from start to finish? Now sending that off to people like me would be real proof.

[windows_chepstow]

Then come to where i live and i`ll prove just that...are you telling me a straight forward 3 bed semi (not bays) i.e, 2 flat windows at the top front, 1 or 2 at the bottom, maybe a landing on the side at the top, and 2 at top and bottom round the back, plus front and back door, you can`t do that less than 12 mins???

I wouldn't say doing an average sized semi in 12 mins is impossible.  I think an average window cleaner does three, three-bedroomed semi's in an hour.  So that's one every twenty minutes.

But that twenty minutes is broken down into not just the cleaning.  Some could be gaining access to the rear.  Speaking to a customer.  Waiting for the customer to find his/her wallet/purse/cheque book.  Giving change or writing a chit.  Updating your own records, then walking to the next house.

It's not just the 'cleaning' that takes time. 

Not only that, do you really want to be throwing yourself round a house - going like the clappers - all day?  Mistakes will be made and accidents will happen.

I've just re-read UBA1's post:

Maybe i`m just a fast shiner, but the truth is, i can do 5/6x3 standard semis in 1hr.

Sorry UBA1, but I too think this is impossible for one person.

Just say they're small semi's and have 9 windows and two doors.  That's 11 items to clean in 12 minutes, giving you under a minute to knock for the cash and be cleaning your next house.

I seem to remember there was someone on this site, a year or two ago who also used to claim wild earnings.  Eventually he followed this up with a 'Get Rich Quick Book'.  I don't know how it panned out.

UBA1, don't flame me.  I believe you can clean a house in 12 minutes.  I think I could, starting from the time when my ladders hit the first wall; finishing when I cleaned the last window.  Not taking anything else into consideration.

However - no offence - but it can't be achieved at a workable level.  No way!

[rosskesava]

UBA1 lives on Fantasy Island with that midget whos mates all live in tiny houses.

Meaning?

I understood the meaning.........

Hi Ian

I seem to remember there was someone on this site, a year or two ago who also used to claim wild earnings.  Eventually he followed this up with a 'Get Rich Quick Book'.  I don't know how it panned out.

I also recall a familiar theme but I couldn't at the time of my posting put my finger on it.

I'm eagerly awaiting the video because, afterall, money isn't an issue with UBA1, he will do it to prove his point.

Also, a video will help him earn more money by proving it is true. He could show that video to those he sells rounds to. Strange he hasn't thought of that already.