[jouk45]

i love comming up with new ideas, every little bit helps, heres my demo of the me refilling a backpack the easy way 
http://s184.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid184.photobucket.com/albums/x75/trainingacademy/04062009.flv&fs=1&os=1&ap=1

[matt]

i did a bungalow yesterday, a elderly lady, i have allways done it trad, as i knew she wouldnt understand WFP

i arrive and park up across the road, she comes out and says " can you do the frames please, i know you said you had 1 of them special devices, a mate of mine has her's done and she says the frames come up great, i can pay extra "

i am shocked, amazed

i tell her i didnt think she would "get wfp" and she laughed

so she asked me how much extra it will be

i put it up a few quid

i explain the first few cleans are not 100 % ( and they often are not )

i then do 1 inside window, its red hot and the window has dried allready outside

the window looks CRAP

so i do it again outside

i have a freshly sqeezed lemon drink off the lady

go back to the room and check it again

still a few runs of spots

your right, its not 100 %

lesson there Matt, dont judge people on what you think, think over your customer base and you could be costing yourself big money, disney princess dress every trip

to be honest ian, i am now all WFP apart from a few bungalows ( now 4 ) and 2 of them are insides aswell, so they have to be done trad

the thing is, if i had tried to sel her the idea she would have laughed and told me not to bother, its only because her mate has them done and she sold her the frames idea

ref the disney dress, last trip we went , my daughter had a dress, $110  shocking price, nice dress though

I am trying to make this sound good all though it is sad, We buried my 3 years old neice last year in her favourite disney princess dress, her dress was beutiful cost a fortune, but kids are precious and worth every penny, also have to say to you Matt I totally respect what you do and they way you do it for your kids, although I tend to disagree with yuo a lot of the time, we both want the same goal

watch it ian, that was allmost a compliment  but i get what you mean 

i cannot imagine life without my children 

[Window Washers]

i did a bungalow yesterday, a elderly lady, i have allways done it trad, as i knew she wouldnt understand WFP

i arrive and park up across the road, she comes out and says " can you do the frames please, i know you said you had 1 of them special devices, a mate of mine has her's done and she says the frames come up great, i can pay extra "

i am shocked, amazed

i tell her i didnt think she would "get wfp" and she laughed

so she asked me how much extra it will be

i put it up a few quid

i explain the first few cleans are not 100 % ( and they often are not )

i then do 1 inside window, its red hot and the window has dried allready outside

the window looks CRAP

so i do it again outside

i have a freshly sqeezed lemon drink off the lady

go back to the room and check it again

still a few runs of spots

your right, its not 100 %

lesson there Matt, dont judge people on what you think, think over your customer base and you could be costing yourself big money, disney princess dress every trip

to be honest ian, i am now all WFP apart from a few bungalows ( now 4 ) and 2 of them are insides aswell, so they have to be done trad

the thing is, if i had tried to sel her the idea she would have laughed and told me not to bother, its only because her mate has them done and she sold her the frames idea

ref the disney dress, last trip we went , my daughter had a dress, $110  shocking price, nice dress though

I am trying to make this sound good all though it is sad, We buried my 3 years old neice last year in her favourite disney princess dress, her dress was beutiful cost a fortune, but kids are precious and worth every penny, also have to say to you Matt I totally respect what you do and they way you do it for your kids, although I tend to disagree with yuo a lot of the time, we both want the same goal

watch it ian, that was allmost a compliment  but i get what you mean 

i cannot imagine life without my children 

It was a compliment to you Matt, but just to even it out for you so I don't do you head in, I dont like the hippy van

[matt]

i did a bungalow yesterday, a elderly lady, i have allways done it trad, as i knew she wouldnt understand WFP

i arrive and park up across the road, she comes out and says " can you do the frames please, i know you said you had 1 of them special devices, a mate of mine has her's done and she says the frames come up great, i can pay extra "

i am shocked, amazed

i tell her i didnt think she would "get wfp" and she laughed

so she asked me how much extra it will be

i put it up a few quid

i explain the first few cleans are not 100 % ( and they often are not )

i then do 1 inside window, its red hot and the window has dried allready outside

the window looks CRAP

so i do it again outside

i have a freshly sqeezed lemon drink off the lady

go back to the room and check it again

still a few runs of spots

your right, its not 100 %

lesson there Matt, dont judge people on what you think, think over your customer base and you could be costing yourself big money, disney princess dress every trip

to be honest ian, i am now all WFP apart from a few bungalows ( now 4 ) and 2 of them are insides aswell, so they have to be done trad

the thing is, if i had tried to sel her the idea she would have laughed and told me not to bother, its only because her mate has them done and she sold her the frames idea

ref the disney dress, last trip we went , my daughter had a dress, $110  shocking price, nice dress though

I am trying to make this sound good all though it is sad, We buried my 3 years old neice last year in her favourite disney princess dress, her dress was beutiful cost a fortune, but kids are precious and worth every penny, also have to say to you Matt I totally respect what you do and they way you do it for your kids, although I tend to disagree with yuo a lot of the time, we both want the same goal

watch it ian, that was allmost a compliment  but i get what you mean 

i cannot imagine life without my children 

It was a compliment to you Matt, but just to even it out for you so I don't do you head in, I dont like the hippy van

  neither will i next week

i have to change all the brake hoses  and 1 of the steering track rods 

[simon knight]

I'm so pleased I'm trad after reading all of this. OK it must be said that trad has it's faults...windows that are inaccessable, working off lethal ladders :, impracticable in rain...and slower.

However when I clean a window I know 100% that when I walk away I'm leaving behind a perfectly clean window. Complaints? I'll need to look the word up in my dictionary ....ah right...the Oxford Concise definition: an illness or medical condition, a reason for dissatisfaction.

I don't have complaints that I'm buggering-up the double glazing :.  I don't have complaints that my trailing hose has knocked over and smashed the garden gnome .  Nobody complains in winter that the water I've left around the house has turned into sheet ice and aunt Ada slipped and broke her hip on it .  

I don't worry about tds, or resin, or brushes, or rectus type 019, or pumps, or backpacks, or how long my "pole" is

For me the simple life: Ladder, bucket, sponge, squeegee, scrim...and finish!

I think wfp is good in theory...

[matt]

I'm so pleased I'm trad after reading all of this. OK it must be said that trad has it's faults...windows that are inaccessable, working off lethal ladders :, impracticable in rain...and slower.

However when I clean a window I know 100% that when I walk away I'm leaving behind a perfectly clean window. Complaints? I'll need to look the word up in my dictionary ....ah right...the Oxford Concise definition: an illness or medical condition, a reason for dissatisfaction.

I don't have complaints that I'm buggering-up the double glazing :.  I don't have complaints that my trailing hose has knocked over and smashed the garden gnome .  Nobody complains in winter that the water I've left around the house has turned into sheet ice and aunt Ada slipped and broke her hip on it .  

I don't worry about tds, or resin, or brushes, or rectus type 019, or pumps, or backpacks, or how long my "pole" is

For me the simple life: Ladder, bucket, sponge, squeegee, scrim...and finish!

I think wfp is good in theory...

i agree 100 %

though i will stick to WFP, why ? ? ? ? because i am pretty much sure i will be returning home between 3.30 and 4.00 that afternoon

for me, its just the safety aspect

[simon knight]

Matt, I agree safety is of paramount importance and it's where wfp scores massively over trad. Don't mind me, I'm just engaging in a bit of harmless Friday banter

I feel that for trad guys attacking wfp is good sport and should be recognised as such, to me it's a bit like fox hunting...not especially nice...but bloody good fun!

[matt]

Matt, I agree safety is of paramount importance and it's where wfp scores massively over trad. Don't mind me, I'm just engaging in a bit of harmless Friday banter

I feel that for trad guys attacking wfp is good sport and should be recognised as such, to me it's a bit like fox hunting...not especially nice...but bloody good fun!

  i knew that

i remember when sqeeky was still trad, happy and funny days

[simon knight]

Matt, I agree safety is of paramount importance and it's where wfp scores massively over trad. Don't mind me, I'm just engaging in a bit of harmless Friday banter

I feel that for trad guys attacking wfp is good sport and should be recognised as such, to me it's a bit like fox hunting...not especially nice...but bloody good fun!

  i knew that

i remember when sqeeky was still trad, happy and funny days

And where is the Squeeks these days?...Ain't seen anything for ages

Ian: Didn't read until now about your niece...no words mate!!!

[matt]

Matt, I agree safety is of paramount importance and it's where wfp scores massively over trad. Don't mind me, I'm just engaging in a bit of harmless Friday banter

I feel that for trad guys attacking wfp is good sport and should be recognised as such, to me it's a bit like fox hunting...not especially nice...but bloody good fun!

  i knew that

i remember when sqeeky was still trad, happy and funny days

And where is the Squeeks these days?...Ain't seen anything for ages

i guess he has a life now 

[[GQC] Tim]

I wasn't going to get involved with it, but here goes anyway.

Simon, with all due respect, if you haven't mastered wfp, don't knock it. Problems arise because people don't have a clue what they are doing.

However when I clean a window I know 100% that when I walk away I'm leaving behind a perfectly clean window. Complaints?

Never get complaints, and when I walk away from the windows I know 100% it's coming up well. Experience and Skill.

I don't have complaints that I'm buggering-up the double glazing

My customers are bright enough to realise their windows are past the guaranteed lifetime, and even know why they turn misty. If they don't, it's a simple chat about why and how they mist up.

I don't have complaints that my trailing hose has knocked over and smashed the garden gnome

Self explanatory, need to look out where you are going, and I'm actually out looking for garden gnomes and knocking them over, horrible things! (just kidding) 

Nobody complains in winter that the water I've left around the house has turned into sheet ice and aunt Ada slipped and broke her hip on it

Common sense and a pinch of salt works well. Usually I find that it doesn't get cold enough in the south for it to freeze up. Immediately round the house it's warmer anyway. If I park my van up right against the house, the windscreen doesn't freeze, due to the radiant heat of the house.

I don't worry about tds, or resin, or brushes, or rectus type 019, or pumps, or backpacks, or how long my pole is

I don't worry about that either. Get it done right the first time. Buy cheap buy twice. Ignorance is bliss, etc etc etc. 


Wfp works in theory AND practice. But only on one condition, that is if the operator knows what he is doing.



@ ftp, matt and the others.

Did another test today, like I have been doing ever since I've been wfp.

Did a house inside and out, very badly beading windows. Did my usual technique.

Went inside, and low and behold, not a SINGLE spot on the window, I actually caught myself saying out loud how impressed I still am after seeing the results of a perfect wfp job. And that was with an absolute magnifiying glass, from every angle. Not a spot, I'm serious.

If you can't get windows up well, there is something wrong, with either the window frame, your tools, or method.

WFP does get windows up to a perfect finish, you just need to know what you are doing. I've seen this time and time again since I've started wfp. The only problems I now and then have is when I'm being a sleepyhead, and not paying attention to what I'm doing, and even then, it's very hard to get wfp wrong.

[ftp]

Pity your not near me 'cos I would wager £100 on a house that I could see evidence of wfp technique. Not enough for a customer to complain but enough to annoy me if I cleaned it.
I would also wager that nobody can do a first clean in one pass (frames included) without leaving serious trail runs on the glass.

[macmac]

Had one of my regular cleans today. This house always beads like mad but looks brilliant from the drive. Finished the clean then he asks to have his conservatory roof cleaned. This gave all the windows time to dry in the baking sun. So when i'd finished it gave me time to check all the windows. I couldn't find one perfect one. Talk about gutted! TDS 000 best brushes and plenty of experience now. This system is crap.
I've said it loads of times before but let's be honest, when you have a really close look it's not brilliant is it?
Maybe I was a printer too long (studying fine detail).

Like I've said before dave, too much bull**it on here regarding wfp. It's a tool which will, in the RIGHT circumstances achieve an acceptable standard & even sometimes near perfect. On other occasions the glass can be left worse than when you started!! Think logically, how likely is it that after cleaning a whole frame & window full of crevises, seals, corners etc & will at some point meet mortar/brick/stone etc. with a wf brush that even after a good scrub & rinse that the whole unit is not contaminated by at least 001 parts-per-million? ( & probably a lot more ) not very likely really is it?

Regarding the perfectors, GQC tim is a relative wfp puppy & as you will now know it takes experience not just to do a good job but to be able to see inperfection. I'll tell you straight, a wfp cleaned window can look amazing, perfect from more than one angle & this is probably what most will see & deem as perfect. Only knowlage & xperience will give you the angle you need to look from.

BUT, there will always be people who only see what they want to see! See?  

I know for a fact that many wfp'ers are not doing as good a job as they think. Not having complaints doesn't mean perfect results by any means either.

WFP acheives an acceptable standard which will differ from window to window & different weather conditions. Full stop.

[matt]

@ ftp, matt and the others.

Did another test today, like I have been doing ever since I've been wfp.

Did a house inside and out, very badly beading windows. Did my usual technique.

Went inside, and low and behold, not a SINGLE spot on the window, I actually caught myself saying out loud how impressed I still am after seeing the results of a perfect wfp job. And that was with an absolute magnifiying glass, from every angle. Not a spot, I'm serious.

If you can't get windows up well, there is something wrong, with either the window frame, your tools, or method.

WFP does get windows up to a perfect finish, you just need to know what you are doing. I've seen this time and time again since I've started wfp. The only problems I now and then have is when I'm being a sleepyhead, and not paying attention to what I'm doing, and even then, it's very hard to get wfp wrong.

so you clean your windows and they look great, what about all the other houses you clean, i have a house that i do both in and outsides every 6 - 8 weeks, they come up fine, not a problem, i also do a fair few others in and outside and some of them allways have the odd spot

so after all these years of me using WFP i still dont know what i am doing  : : not likely is it , its a fact that not every window will look great with WFP, the customer accepts it, thats why most get no complaints, but lets not kid ourselves that its either : a. a magic pole , b. your so good that you never get the odd spot

[ftp]

Spot on Tony. It's acceptable but rarely perfect. Leaded windows are one of the worst although dead easy to do they are a nightmare for minor spots and runs. Like I said a close inspection can be quite dissapointing but from a distance - brilliant.
Just wish I could sterilise my windows like everyone else  
I also clean the frames which won't help things either, but that's the way i work. My company is called Frames To Panes, so it's a bit late to start missing them out.  

[pingu]

Lets face it...WFP & Trad give acceptable results in the main...but few will be able to say and really be able to back it up ...they are perfect....

As has been said...far too much 'biggin it up' on here...we are just window cleaners and we just clean windows..ok we can make a good living but it is just cleaning windows.

WFP>>>>Good results = yep in the main...perfection...very rarely I would say.

Cheers
Dave.

[matt]

Lets face it...WFP & Trad give acceptable results in the main...but few will be able to say and really be able to back it up ...they are perfect....

As has been said...far too much 'biggin it up' on here...we are just window cleaners and we just clean windows..ok we can make a good living but it is just cleaning windows.

WFP>>>>Good results = yep in the main...perfection...very rarely I would say.

Cheers
Dave.

dont put yourself down

you are just as important as a brain surgeon or a paramedic

you clean windows, its that important

 

[ftp]

Too much bloody rocket science with this job - that's the trouble.

[macmac]

Too much bloody rocket science with this job - that's the trouble.

 

And to add to my previous rant, this is the reason I don't clean top frames!

[Pj]

Alan Sugar sold rubbish products cheap for most of his life.  Didn't get him very far did it!

Don't strive for perfection - it's not good enough.



The perfect way to clean a window would be to remove it from the house.  Take it to a totally dust free, sterile room, strip clean the frame and re-polish or paint.  Then clean the glass with every product under the sun.  Refit wearing anti-static white gloves.

Everything else has a trade-off.  Simples