[The Great One]

Hi all

Got called out on an emergency clean today and was told of this substance on the walls.

Upon arrival found out that it was absolutley everywhere, even in the ice box?

It seemed to come from every kind of heat source, pipes, radiators, lights etc.  some of the walls were nealy black.

has anyone come across this before? it seems to be coming from the central heating but 1st time i have seen this kind of thing?

Thoughts?

Regards

Martin

[Len Gribble]

Martin

Have a chat with Chris if unsure what the black stuff is! Number 01252 821185

Not a million miles from you!

Len

[woodman]

Yes I've come across this before,

sounds like the central heating flue is either blocked or broken, if this is the case then apart from any thing else this makes the property dangerous and unliveable until repaired and cleaned.

If they have a HVAC system the filters may be be blocked and all will need cleaning inside and out.

Of course another possibilty is that an adjoining property has had a smoke problem and the smoke has been transported into the property your looking at by the warm air, this would account for it coming through light fittings,behind radiators and following pipe work etc.

needs investigating before you begin.

[The Great One]

Hi

Many thanks for all that, i did try the sugar soap approach but it smeared and soaked into the wall, so it will be a complete repaint (which I hope to do?)

I don't think it is coming from another property (its a basement flat) on the joins of the pipes it seems much worse, also the radiator pipes are corroding (going green and dripping) This stuff was everywhere, on every surface, in cupboards, in the fridge?. i have cleaned the place except for the walls and ceiing. I feel it is defineately the central heating.

Thanks

Regards

Martin

[martin19842]

hi there,

if its in the basement, i am thinking whether the basement has been tanked properly, we had a brand new buils clean last month, where because of a water leak in the kitchen units the white melamine coated chipboard on the backs of the kitchen units had gone black, like spores, and when you first wipe them they just smear, it needs a bit more elbow grease.

combined with the greening on the radiator, i would be looking at the black soot like substance to be damp spore growths, another common place is in the bathroom, on the cold water pipes, as the heat in the bathroom, added to the cold water pipe,sometimes creates the right conditions, ie condensation for growth.

i could be wrong, but thats what weve experienced in the past

regards

martin

[The Great One]

Hi

Thanks for that martin, but it is not mould. Looks like they've had a fire. It has a uniform appearance and you can sere the clock hs been and other shapes of things hanging?

It does come off with a wet thumb, there is no mould smell. Even with a few treatments of sugar soap it still had a smeary look to the walls?

Ah well, lets hope for a repaint.

Regards

Martin

[Fox]

Don't know alot about this subject but if it is smoke damage and you repaint ensure you use the right product first (some sort of sealer?).  Smoke may have penetrated the walls and can reactivate bringing staining through any newly painted walls.

Fox

[martin19842]

martin,

i would of expected them to have told you if it was a fire, anyway.

An alkaline cleaning product/solution is what you really need to use, to neutralise the acidic nature of the smoke and deposits.  the other way to clean it would be to blast it off with compressed air, rather than wetting it down.

alternatively strip back and start again.

regards

martin

[woodman]

Hi Martin

You need to vacuum the walls and ceilings before cleaning.

If the walls and ceilings are emulsioned then you clean using a dry chemical sponge and then seal, as you've discovered wetting in only makes the situation worse and much harder work.

However now that you have done that, you can not now simply paint over the top as the staining will just come straight back through.

Get some Soot Seal from Prochem and apply that first or Hamptons soot and nicotene seal although this is very expensive it is a very good product.

The green on the copper pipes is unrelated and simply  where a valve is leaking and running down the ouside of the pipe.

[DP]

Martin (not sure if you have already dealt with this, but some points that might prove useful in the future). 

Have had to split this over 2 posts (sorry all)

You say you were called in as an emergency. To suddenly have this amount of soot/carbon appear (if that was really the case as stated by the client) would have to be incident related and really needs to be investigated.

Some thoughts below if it is carbon on next post: (don’t read if your not interested). 

[DP]

If this is carbon it would be no surprise for it to appear as coming from heat source's such as radiators, pipes etc as once carbon is airborne it will circulate with the warm air currents within a room and follow heat paths until it becomes heavy via mass or absorbing hydrogen (atmospheric moisture) resulting in fall out causing surface deposits
 
However because of its composite (created at source by whatever caused it) the deposits can become slightly tacky which causes particles to stick to vertical surfaces.

Another cause for surface retention is because carbon is conductive it retains static electricity which is encouraged by heat, a bit like rubbing a balloon (generating friction) and sticking it to a wall.

Anyone who has seen the aftermath of a fire, especially domestic will of observed all the cobwebs hanging about, much to the clients embarrassment and shock in respect of poor housekeeping. In truth these are a direct result of heat from the fire causing particles of dust and carbon to stick to each other forming lots of chains resembling cobwebs.

Passive carbon contamination (not incident related) can come from anywhere, ie a blocked chimney, road vehicles and in high traffic areas is often known as London Grime being the curse of inner city living.

Most carbon is active containing some element of acidic activity. Cleaning should be carried out (as people have already mentioned) using a high alkaline detergent to neutralise this activity. The point is to neutralise, the “cleaning” side will remain as difficult as any wet cleaning of porous surface along with all the problems of staining. Due to the deposits being loose, vacuuming (as woodman stated) first can save a lot of damage.

Finnaly, if it is important to minimise any staining on a wall surface when washing, then wash from the bottom up and not from the top down. By washing from the top down, any residual water/chemical running down the un-cleaned wall will set streak stains in permanently, with little chance of removal by the time you get down there .

Hope this helps
DP   

[The Great One]

Hi

Thanks for all the help guys.

It seems the tenant had a parrifin heater in there. Anyhoo, I have now got the job to clean and re-paint it.

I intend to dry clean with vacuum all surfaces and then with dry chemical sponge. then from bottom up clean with sugar soap. Then to repaint when dryed.

Any more thoughts would be of great help.

Regards

Martin

[woodman]

Apply soot seal, to save time when painting

[Len Gribble]

Martin

I take you have no sense of smell and never noticed the paraffin heater or did they take it out side so you would not see it?

Len

[The Great One]

Hi Len

Long time, no banter 

Couldn't smell anything on entry? also they have had the central heating checked and not coming from that?

I have no nose...

How do I smell?

Awful

Regards

Martin

[Len Gribble]

Martin

Did you only get the building?

Len

[The Great One]

Hi

Looks like it might be prolonged candle use?

tenant was in there for a year. done a clean today where the tenants had used candles in the bathroom and ornate firplace.

The bathroom tiles had a layer of soot all over them?

Possible for prolonged candlw use to cause an excess build up??

Regards

Martin