[seandyer2003]

: of course it's not naff! It's how to remove dirt from glass - takes years to master.

everytime i've ever seen an NVQ in whatever it may be i've always thought it was for people that didn't have a proper education as it was mostly for people that never went on to any main further education

Well im taking a degree in window cleaning next year.

Its a 3 year full time course.

When its finished I wont have a business left and ill be divorced and homeless.

Atleast ill have letters after my name. Dean Taberner i.d.o.t 

Dean

my point is whats the point of an NVQ? no need for the sarky comment just healthy debate

IMO if you are quoting for a job and can say "all staff are trained, or are training - to nvq level 2 and above - it sounds very good!!

Heres what they stand for:

www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/QualificationsExplained/DG_10039017

[williamx]

Went on course today, 1 of 13 week was good any one else attend at Mathew boulton college?

I was there, I sat opposite you.

The point of the NVQ course is not how to clean a window, but how to clean a window safely.

Most domestic customers will not care about how you clean their windows, so long as you do them, but the commercial customers are becoming more aware on health and safety, they know that its their reponsablility to make sure that whoever they have working on their property, does so in a safe manner.

After you have passed this course you will be able to state that you are qualified upto level 2, which will show to your commercial customers that you take heath and safety seriously, and when you apply for tenders, your bid will be stronger than any other cleaner who has not gone on this or other heath and safety courses, and anything that helps in getting more contract work can be welcomed will open arms. 

Heath and safety in the workplace is going to get stronger in the future, and it you ignore it, you will find that your commercial work will starts to dry up and disappear.

[ronnie paton]

i believe it helps sell your business and helps you stand out, it shows you take your work seriuosly and want to do the best you can.

any potential client will only bring positives from this on your portfolio.

they wont think well there obviuosly un educated peole doing the course for the sake of it.

the course takes time and commitment potential client will feel they are leaving the work in the best hands.

my opinion only

[cozy]

No, an NVQ paper would go something like this:

Applying Solution To The Vertical Glazing Panel:

The substrate is dampened with a liquid solution containing a small percentage of surface tension reducing properties and a proportion of friction reducing chemical suspended in an H2o compound. This is applied using an advanced microfibre sleeve designed to hold the maximum quantity of liquid per surface area using an ergonomically designed tool to reduce rsi and associated problems.

Then the multiple choice exam paper would be like this:


Pick the correct tool for removing impacted soilage from the list below:

1. A lump hammer
2. Emery cloth
3. Chisel
4. Scraper blade and solution.
 :

The answer is A used with C, what do I win?

I was just going to give that answer!!, It's my prize too Andy a

[david willis]

It seems to me the only people being negative about the course are the people who are either not signed up to do it or haven't even enquired about it.

The main reason we got involved in supplying the course was to improve the industry you are all working in and we are very passionate about it.

Maybe you should give us a ring first to discuss the course before making your mind up

Also remember the course is funded, how many times have you heard window cleaners moan at all the expenses for different types of training and accreditations

I have just got back from the cleaning show where we was marketing the NVQ and we had alot of interest there and alot of positive comments.

So if it does interest you please contact us at david.willis@impact43.com or 01205 769032

[cozy]

OK David, was only having a giggle, but if the NVQ was around when I was younger I would have jumped at it as I had a real chip on my shoulder when I first started. It was an image problem for me. Now I just turn up at the custies, clean the windows, put a sticker on the door then collect later.

[Dean Taberner]

its very simple.

if you think it will benefit your business then go on the course.

if you don't think it will benefit your business and you think that its a waste of time. Then don't go on the course.

Dean

[Robin Ray]

its very simple.

if you think it will benefit your business then go on the course.

if you don't think it will benefit your business and you think that its a waste of time. Then don't go on the course.

Dean

I agree

At the end of the day its all about money. Will it earn you any more money?
After all how many of us would be window cleaning if we didnt need to?

Rob

[seandyer2003]

You will earn more money if you come across as professional by having the certificates, it may not matter with mr smith domestic work but with big government contracts, etc you will need every little help you can get to have an edge on somebody, all depends on what sort of a reputation and presentation you want for your business If you just clean your rounds each week and have no need to grow then yeah, you are wasting your time, however if you are trying to build a business then i see it as a positive step in the right direction, and a good step towards rising the standards in the industry as a whole, how many window cleaners do you know that let the rest down - what if they took it seriously and did a course learning how to do a good job!! Maybe the industry would look alot better to outsiders

[EZclean]

The point is it gives the NVQ trainer/assessor a job i suppose.

I can't help but be negative after experiencing the system in the print trade where it was utter bull. But as it replaced the apprentiship it's the only way of obtaining a qualification.

The whole point of an NVQ seems to be to take a simple task that can be handled with common sense and dress it up to be something mind blowingly complicated even to the extent of inventing their own language. For example paper in the print trade had to be termed 'substrate' and so on.
Bird poo now becomes 'impacted soilage' etc.

as also coming from printing and being 'forced' into doing an NVQ2, i totally agree that they are an absolute nonsense! after 3months of this stupid woman assesor coming on to the shop floor trying to justify her job, my boss loved watching me trying to throw myself into the dampers every week. or jumping into the 'cut&fold'.... anything to remove the madness!!!

[ftp]

I think if you are young and used to the gobbledegook way of doing things then you won't know any different. Health and safety is much the same - common sense dressed up in a solicitors language. If you want qualifications then there are no alternatives i'm afraid.
It probably just shows my age when i can't stomach the stuff. 

A classic example quoted yesterday that could be reduced to a few lines:


98. Taking account of the general principles of prevention in Schedule 3 to the Act, an employer
shall—
(a) ensure that work is not carried out at height where it is reasonably practicable to carry out the work safely and without risk to health otherwise than at height,
(b) without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (a), ensure that work is not carried
out at height unless it is reasonably practicable to do so safely and without risk to
health,
(c) where, having regard to paragraphs (a) and (b), it is necessary to carry out work at
height, take suitable and sufficient measures to prevent an employee falling a
distance liable to cause personal injury, including—
(i) ensuring that the work is carried out—
(I) from an existing place of work, or
(II) in the case of obtaining access or egress, by using an existing means of
access or egress,
in compliance with this Part, where it is practicable to do so safely and under
appropriate ergonomic conditions, and
(ii) where it is not practicable for the work to be carried out in accordance with
subparagraph (i), ensuring that suitable and sufficient work equipment, in
compliance with Regulation 100, is provided to prevent a fall occurring,
(d) where the measures taken under paragraph (c) do not eliminate the risk of a fall
occurring—
(i) provide sufficient work equipment, in compliance with Regulation 100, to
minimise the distance of a potential fall and the risk of personal injury, and
(ii) without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (c), provide such additional
training and instruction or take other additional suitable and sufficient
measures to prevent, so far as is practicable, any employee falling a distance
liable to cause personal injury. 
 
 
 

[trevor perry]

I think if you are young and used to the gobbledegook way of doing things then you won't know any different. Health and safety is much the same - common sense dressed up in a solicitors language. If you want qualifications then there are no alternatives i'm afraid.
It probably just shows my age when i can't stomach the stuff. 

A classic example quoted yesterday that could be reduced to a few lines:


98. Taking account of the general principles of prevention in Schedule 3 to the Act, an employer
shall—
(a) ensure that work is not carried out at height where it is reasonably practicable to carry out the work safely and without risk to health otherwise than at height,
(b) without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (a), ensure that work is not carried
out at height unless it is reasonably practicable to do so safely and without risk to
health,
(c) where, having regard to paragraphs (a) and (b), it is necessary to carry out work at
height, take suitable and sufficient measures to prevent an employee falling a
distance liable to cause personal injury, including—
(i) ensuring that the work is carried out—
(I) from an existing place of work, or
(II) in the case of obtaining access or egress, by using an existing means of
access or egress,
in compliance with this Part, where it is practicable to do so safely and under
appropriate ergonomic conditions, and
(ii) where it is not practicable for the work to be carried out in accordance with
subparagraph (i), ensuring that suitable and sufficient work equipment, in
compliance with Regulation 100, is provided to prevent a fall occurring,
(d) where the measures taken under paragraph (c) do not eliminate the risk of a fall
occurring—
(i) provide sufficient work equipment, in compliance with Regulation 100, to
minimise the distance of a potential fall and the risk of personal injury, and
(ii) without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (c), provide such additional
training and instruction or take other additional suitable and sufficient
measures to prevent, so far as is practicable, any employee falling a distance
liable to cause personal injury. 
 
 
 

totally agree but it is the world we live in and to have any chance of gaining a large contract and even many small ones you have to have all this paperwork in place, our health and safety and employment law gobbldegook as you call it costs me £400 a month but it shows we are proffessional and could save us thousands if a tribunal occured.
  i havnt done the nvq myself and when i asked my employees they wasnt interested either, i do begrudge taking a course that tells me how to do something that i do probably better than the one teaching me just to get a certificate and there are that many options where do you finish ie safecontractor various iso s, nvq s, bwca courses, iosh these are just a few then there are the compulsary ones like I.P,A.F for platform access.
  i feel all my staff are well trained as it is to my advantage that they work efficently and safely but i feel a lot of these courses etc are just money making schemes ok some are free due to government grants but they are still paid for with taxpayers money which could be better spent elswhere.