[Tosh]

Sageorgeta,

Shush, let Ewan define what a 'professional window cleaner' is.

He's good for entertainment, mate; don't bite.

Just smile to yourself if you disagree with his answer.

[Tosh]

Ewan,

You obviously haven't a clue and just posted some waffle.

If you're going to spout 'professionalism', please define what that exactly means.

[sageorgeta]

I think if you take the time to read what has already been said by me you will realise what i think is classed as a professional window cleaner,and it is certainly not someone who has all the gadgets and all the talk....
I know two window cleaners in my area who drive a astra estate and they have a massive round both small commercial and domestic.They are allways pulling in new work,i have asked them before why they dont go wfp (as i am) but they are happy and content with the way they work.
They have a customer base of 700 + , something that i can only dream about.They pay tax,are vat registered,have pl insurance,drive a crappy old car,leave customers very happy and lead a plentiful and fruitful existance.......now tell me they are not professional,because when i went around one of their flats to buy a small part of their customer base it sure looked like they were doing the right thing.
You talk nonsense with all this professional garbage,we are all professional window cleaners because that is what we do for a living...although obviously Ewan we are not up to your heady standards....maybe we should all attend the Ewan School of window cleaning so we all reach your high standards. : 

[williamx]

Licensing was brought in as there was a criminal element trading as window cleaners way back in the Glasgow ice cream wars. Edinburgh Council I believe were the first to introduce it.

I for one was glad it came along as you could go into one street and find several window cleaners in it, prices were around £2.50 for 3 bed house now we are getting £8.00 so we have seen the benefits.

At the moment there is no war with window cleaners in England, in fact we are all friendly towards each other, as this forum can testify.

When I first started there use to be 4 cleaners who would turn up to clean a row of 12 shops, we all use to turn up at the same time on a friday morning, it was amusing.

There are now only 2 of us left and I am still charging more than the other guy.

I know one guy who charges £1 for a house, the reason is because he is a pensioner and does not need the money but likes the company of his customers, if a licence was needed he would get one and still charge the same, the same applies to the majority of cleaners in my area, they won't increase there prices because they feel they are giving value for money.

[williamx]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/professionalism

[sageorgeta]

Maybe the examples of the window cleaner you mention are very professional and they sound successful.

But like you say you’re not like them, and your definition of professionalism is only to make a profit, same as cowboys really, isn’t it.

Tosh still working on his answer.

So you have now desended to the realms of calling me a cowboy?
Well i really am gobsmacked that you have the nerve.
Of course i want to make a profit...thats why i work.

I think i read somewhere before that you started up and didnt make any money for two years (i maybe wrong)....well when i started out my main goal was to make money,call me old fashion but that is what business is about,not necesarilly having all the fancy gadgets.

You certainly can talk about what some might seem to believe a sound business background,but to me you show signs of weakness in your condescending attitude,signs that you really are not what you pretend to be.

As you have no knowledge of how i run my business  will take your negative comments with a pinch of salt,probably as many others take most of your infantile posts.

[Clive McDonald]

I'm sort of agreeing with ewan on this, and i'm sure many who stay silent know what he means even if he doesn't put it very well.

For a start your example was very poor. The two lads with 700 customers that are vat registered, but drive a banger and live in a flat, are not exactly my idea of a success story. Do you mean they are nice blokes who work hard and do a good job? Okay, and maybe i'm shallow, but the money side of things has to come into this and most would split this work between them and stay under the limit.

The idea of doing commercial without wfp? What?

A true professional is someone with integrity who carries it into all areas from marketing, appearance, standard of work, dealing with complaints etc.Ewan must be pretty good or he wouldn't still be around, and his low earnings for years one and two probably reflect an investment and tax strategy, rather than he's clueless.

[gerard mcmanus]

I don’t mind a good debate, in my mind mine and others opinions are not right or wrong they are just points of view, professional would be being courteous to that and not allowing a debate to degrade to a slagging match.

A professional window cleaner is someone who cleans windows as there profession, there lively hood. However professional window cleaners can behave in and un-professional manor, either by there conduct and/or not abiding by the law and in my opinion, that’s when they become what you call cowboys.

[ftp]

I'm not in the FWC. But i do have a shiny van and wfp and top of the range poles. I have a smart appearance, signwriting and use a laptop for my round.
So if i splash out and join a federation that i have no need to do, i will become professional overnight?
Can't see any of my customers saying "i'm not using him he's not in the Fed!"
It's just windowcleaning at the end of the day - Ewan, we are hardly master craftsmen are we?


I can see a customer being more impressed with a licence or a clean record though or some proof of being trustworthy. I think signwriting goes some way to install confidence with the customer, likewise a buisiness card. They know who you are and how to contact you and you are easily spotted all over town.

[Londoner]

In America you have to register every business at the local town hall. That should be the case over here in my opinion.

One central database for all businesses.

[gerard mcmanus]

Ewan its not what anyone thinks is a professional window cleaner, hydro posted the definition from a dictionary, and that is fact not opinion. You view of a professional window cleaner being a member of the FWC is obscured and in my opinion incorrect, you can be a professional window cleaner and not have a WFP be a member of an association, have a licence if we are talking about England, have sign written van, have a uniform have a logo etc. Admittedly these things add to a professional appearance but do not define you as a professional window cleaner. Someone could have all these things from the get go if they have the money, but they are not a professional window cleaner, until they do it as there job, and are experienced enough not to be considered an amateur of there trade.

[ftp]

Exactly, wfp has nothing to do with being a professional window cleaner - Ewan knows this - he's still using ladders. He's been on some training/buisiness courses and maybe attended a trade show but for some reason because he has joined the FWC he likes to goad all members on here as being unprofessional cowboys which in my opinion is a highly unprofessional thing to do  :

The post was about licencing anyway not about who's a cowboy.

[ftp]

Ewan, why don't you start a topic all about the Fed and how it can benefit windowcleaners on this forum?

I have had no interest in parting with £100 or more on something i haven't needed in over two years. Perhaps you can enlighten me on what i'm missing?

[Rob_Mac]

A true professional will carry themselves and execute all works in such a way that they will leave the client satisfied that the money they have spent, was spent well and will happily recommend the tradesman to their friends and family.

If you operate at this level and with this in mind, in your every day life and don't worry about what the rest are doing your life will become succesful. It cannot fail.

There are a lot of people on here that I laugh at because they have this high and mighty attitude of professionalism but day in and day out they come on here back biting, bitching and generally being complete morons!!!

The test of the man is across all things that he does and how he represents himself in all avenues of life!!!

Some of you behave like complete clowns and then expect to be taken seriously. If half of the time spent on here was spent on business development there would be some millionaires amongst us!!!.

It is very easy to look through postings and see those that carry themselves in such a way to be professional, by their manner, responses and the way they are never drawn into the clutter.

If I sub work it will be to the silent professionals who show their calibre.

I heard a saying ' listen to the quiet man' - it is not always those that shout the loudest that say the right things. When you speak to someone who speaks softly you automatically have to sit forward (try it , it works), they have your attention and you listen.

Rob

[gerard mcmanus]

Ewan its not what anyone thinks is a professional window cleaner, hydro posted the definition from a dictionary, and that is fact not opinion. You view of a professional window cleaner being a member of the FWC is obscured and in my opinion incorrect, you can be a professional window cleaner and not have a WFP be a member of an association, have a licence if we are talking about England, have sign written van, have a uniform have a logo etc. Admittedly these things add to a professional appearance but do not define you as a professional window cleaner. Someone could have all these things from the get go if they have the money, but they are not a professional window cleaner, until they do it as there job, and are experienced enough not to be considered an amateur of there trade.

Your missing the point.

I think I hit the nail on the head and also agree with M-Clean's look at it, but please enlighten me more.

[gerard mcmanus]

Sorry Ewan you have not enlightened me anymore my friend, you are still giving of a condescending attitude and appear to think that if you drive a ford escort estate you cant be a professional, I think it is you that is missing the point. All the things you say makes a professional can be bought; my definition is someone with integrity, knowledge. But I think I am going to leave it there, we have gone way of topic and I think this thread was settled about a page ago. The votes are in, and I concur.

[Tosh]

All the things you say makes a professional can be bought; my definition is someone with integrity, knowledge.

I agree, he's confusing integrity with image. 

[Tosh]

Okay, on the one hand I disagree with licencing in England.  It would only be adding beaurocracy and cost where it's not needed.

But on the other hand, I reckon I know one-or-two part time window cleaners who are probably not declaring their window cleaning income to the tax man.

Now, if a license was introduced, and there was some form of communication between the licensing office and the tax man; those window cleaners who have 'proper jobs' and work part time as window cleaners would find it more difficult to conceal their income; especially if 'us' window cleaners with licenses policed the licenses held by new window cleaners.

Other than that, I can't see the point of it; and there's no guarantees that one government department can or will share information with another.

[gary999]

No I’m not.   :

It’s not me that’s confused.

i think you have spent your whole life a little confused :

shame

[Jimmy1]

Okay, on the one hand I disagree with licencing in England. It would only be adding beaurocracy and cost where it's not needed.

But on the other hand, I reckon I know one-or-two part time window cleaners who are probably not declaring their window cleaning income to the tax man.

Now, if a license was introduced, and there was some form of communication between the licensing office and the tax man; those window cleaners who have 'proper jobs' and work part time as window cleaners would find it more difficult to conceal their income; especially if 'us' window cleaners with licenses policed the licenses held by new window cleaners.

Other than that, I can't see the point of it; and there's no guarantees that one government department can or will share information with another.

I agree with Tosh, but I also think if England goes the way of Licensing, it shouldn't be up to us window cleaners to police it as this could cause problems. Each council should make sure each house occupant knows to ask for a licence and is fully aware that they shouldn't employ anyone without one (perhaps a fine for them, after all they would probably be employing dole boys) There should be extensive newspaper coverage and perhaps TV coverage to educate people. Only then when people are fully aware we just might see some difference.

I for one voted yes to licensing once again purely for the dole boys and beer money brigade who take a lot of work off the rest of us.