[GRAHAM.K]

hi to everyone,
first post to the site,been reading the topics for a while. I apologise for any mistakes, when it comes to technology my head buttons up at the back.
Long time window cleaner, ladders only.Moving to wfp next few weeks.

question.
I do contracts for local council ( kirklees, west yorks), if the council awards future contracts to ladders only companies are they  breaking health and safety laws by allowing unsafe work to be carried out on their premises. ie, using ladders instead of choosing a wfp company, the safer option? would the same apply to any company. Once the councils realise the new laws are passed could they terminate existing contracts for ladder only companies?
Am i reading to much into this? anybody shed any light on this,
cheers.

[Rob_B]

I was cleaning some flats about 6 months ago when a council worker got out of his van after watching me for a while.

He ask me if i was using my wfp because of the ladder restrictions and said the council had stopped using ladders now for a while.

I know of a council building though that get done by agang of lads hanging from ladders like monkeys.

I think the council will still go for the cheapest quote, its not their workers up ladders, I'm sure responsibility will be down to the window cleaning contractor.

[Ian_Giles]

Hi Graham,
Welcome to the forum

Thats a different slant to the normal run of questions on the WAHD, I don't know the answer to the question though.
But I wouldn't think they would be able to cancel contracts just because a company is using ladders.
Ladders are not being banned from use after all, what is required is adherence to the guidelines and correct usage of ladders.
Though there will be windows that they will not be able to do, (lack of eyebolts and so on).
Replies should be interesting

Ian

[Duke]

Hmm...well that's a can of worms in the making......I'm sure that Local Authority bigwigs also have a 'duty of care', Sub Contractors or not, to get the work, they should also have a policy on these issues themselves. Only a sizeable Company would get such contracts, not a 'one man band', and therefore would need to be seen to comply with any current H&SAW legislation.....
Well, that's my tuppence worth, no doubt somebody else will have their's too....

[rosskesava]

Hi Graham

I would have thought the council would be predudiced in favour of the work being done in the safest manner possible.

I live on a council estate and loads of roofs are being replaced. We've been subcontracted by the contractor doing the work to clean the windows and frames after each roof is completed.

Twice over the last 3 months we've seen the council bloke checking on how the roofers are doing their work. (He didn't seem to bother about us though)

The roofers hate him because they say he's really fussy about things.

That, to me, points to the fact that Brighton council is concerned about safe working practises and I would assume it doesn't only apply to roofers and that most councils around the UK are pretty much in a similar mind about these things.

[GRAHAM.K]

Thanks for the replies so far. I am a 'one man band' and work directly for kirklees, i give the building managers an invoice and the bill is paid direct debit.
I was just thinking in todays claim culture, it wont be long before a window cleaner has an accident and tries to sue the council or any company for been allowed to work not using the safest possible methods.If that happens once you watch how fast things will change in favour of wfp. Every one will be too scared to let a ladder using window cleaner on site. If conkers are banned  anything is possible in this day and age.

[rosskesava]

Hi Graham again

If a self employed person fell off a ladder whilst contracted to work for the council, he would have an almost impossible job to prove the council had been negligent as negligence needs to be proved before any claim.

As a self employed person you are responsible for your own safe working practises so the question of the council being responsible doesn't really arise.

The only time the council does become responsible is when they know you are working in an unsafe manner and on or about their property and they deliberately ignore it. Even then, you would need to prove the councils failure which often is again in practise almost impossible.

If 20 or so contractors had accidents with ladders in a reasonable time period then you may have a case.

I also think like you that it's only time before councils have a knee jerk reaction and ban ladders unless absolutely neccesary.

Also, conkers are not banned, nor is playing with them. Schools and other such institutions banned them due to a ruling from the EU about 'games' must be safe to play. The schools etc, themselves banned conkers for that reason. They didn't want to get done by any parents because if the school allows conkers, then they being negligent in the care of the child if an accident occurs.

Cheers

[GRAHAM.K]

hi,
the point i was trying to make, if H&S says the job has to be done the safest possible way and a company allows you on to their premises, (window cleaning or any trade) and an accident occurs and you were not performing that job in the safest possible way and your customer knew that and so did you I would say thats negligence on both sides. That would be taking a literal view of the WAHD. Would my own insurance be void. I'm just trying to watch out for number 1,me.
Didn't realise you took your conkers so seriously.

[rosskesava]

Hi Graham

Your insurance would only be invalid if you deliberately acted in a way so as to cause yourself an accident with the intention of making a claim or at least that is how our insurance is. Other insurances maybe different.

Conkers - oh yes I take conkers seriously. Seriously though, one of my daughters got suspended from school for 3 days for playing conkers and encouraging others to do so knowing it was banned. The headmaster quoted all this EU stuff and so on so I decided to look into it.

It was him that banned it and not the EU. I thoroughly enjoyed that arguement.

Cheers

[denzle]

I would have thought that if the council want the work done by ladders only then they should be installing safety eyebolts to tie safety harness and ladders onto, failure to do that, would in my oppinion constitute negligence.

Denzle

[Justin H]

"Installing safety eyebolts", oh, yes I can really see that happening.
Everybody knows these new regulations will only be abided by a small minority.
Who's the cheapest, that's all that matters most of the time.

[gaza]

I would have thought the council would only allow you to work with a method/risk assessment in place,if it states ladders are used then the council are liable to fit eye bolts, if not fitted and an accident occurred the council are liable,the same if you were cleaning a window from the inside if you fell
out were there were no eye bolts fitted inside the council would be liable

[petski2]

Hi Graham wher are ya from.Im in Wakefield.
Cheers pete

[GRAHAM.K]

hi pete,
I'm over in sunny dewsbury