[jcbdfa]

many on this forum seem to frown on the use of enzymes. i use them regularly with very good results. i even use a steamer to heat the carpet and speed up the reaction(on stainsetc). do they have health risks??? bio washing detergent are popular and safe i presume? my missus is allergic to bio powders but this is through long exposure. many organically derived stains simply disappear after being rinsed. i beleive 65 is the hottest they work at. have only ever used enzymes as prespray does anyone have any feedback on enzyme rinse/shampoo chems(c/s form 70 etc) or better ways to use them?

[Doug Holloway]

Hi,

Haven't got much time but enzymes will give excellent results  , particularly on protein based stains BUT the dust left behind will cause asthma sensitisation.

With bio washing powders the enzyme is encapsulated and rinsing is much more thorough than you could achieve on a carpet.

I will give a more complete answer another time ,
Cheers,

Doug

[nick.solution]

Hi

I can't speak for all Enzymes however in AllergStop we use a natural base Enzyme called Auxillase, which is derived from fruit, (The Papaya) it has been scientifically tested and is proven to eliminate allergens on mould spores, pollen, Pet air, dustmite and its excrement far from producing Asthma sensitising it is the absolute opposite and its action is instant one singel application will eliminate 80% of all air allergens. This particular enzyme uses the "key lock" principle, to break down polypeptides>

Best regards Nick

[Ed Valentine]

The way I see it, Whenever it comes to working around any cleaning agents of any kind, we all have a choice: Good ones(not harmful), or Bad ones(harmful).

I always make it a policy to chose the GOOD ones, period. Because I put the priority on my well being; health, way before the importance of taking out a customers spot, or etc.

In my years of formulating products, I can honestly state that I would never ever use Enzymes in this industry because they are very harmful to humans, you and me. I remember long ago reading the "CAUTION" information on the raw material that the very word, "CAUTION" seemed like it was printed a thousand times over.

Regardless of the fact that some may have liked the results of a particular Enzyme product, there are "other" product formulations out there that will do as good and even out perform them hands down .

Since I am not at liberty to explain further because of the board rules, I will leave it at that.

Just keep looking......................and do your Health a favor.

Good Fortune to all;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

[Doug Holloway]

Ed,

Interesting post , there are no board rules that will stop you recommending the best chemicals for the job.

We try to be as open as possible without any blatant advertising.

Cheers,

Doug

[jcbdfa]

all these posts are interesting and informative. doug your post is interesting but surely ANY cleaning chemical could cause such sensitisation esp with such close and continuous contact as on clothes. look forward to you expanding on this. the other 2 post are derived from people with vested interests(suppliers) and are from their pov. many common carpet shampoos are very irritant. cleaning enzymes may be more irritating because people are already sensitive due to their extensive use? i was a conservator in a previous life and used the enzymes in stimulated spit to clean ivory etc(spit and polish!) interestingly a common conservation cleaner (symperonic) was banned as being dangerous. nick i find your post interesting the use of an enzyme to break down pollens etc etc. this could be a great product to sell to astmatic/eczema sufferers but yours and eds post seem contrary. ed just because the raw matl needs caution this does not imply that the end product is dangerous!sodium +chlorine =salt
ps enzymes also destroy odours superbly well. if safe they are a superb and underused product my favourite is prekleen as enzyme pspray/hi force are too strong pH wise and are therefore not as versatile.

[Ed Valentine]

Doug;

Thanks for the comment. However, in this particular case, since we are a formulator (hint-hint) of cleaning agents, I must rest my case because I do not want to over-step the boundaries.


JCBDFA;

I hope this explaination may help:

So far there has been limited information concerning the long term effects of synthetic enzymes on the human population. Are genetic disorders a manifestation of DNA specific agents in our environment? Can Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases be attributed to protein fragments generated by enzymatic hydrolysis?

This raises concern about the danger of employing chemical agents in detergents which may be absorbed by the skin and eventually into the blood stream where these catalysts could continue to randomly degrade protein matter and even interfere with DNA reproductive processes

It is not clear what effect these powerful enzymes might have on the human neurological system if they should invade the body by absorption or ingestion. However in one reported case, a patient in a hospital went into shock a died as a result of a spinal fluid injection. Subsequent investigation showed that the hypodermic syringe had been previously washed with a detergent containing a synthetic enzyme. The residue left on the syringe was sufficient to cause death.

Enzymes have been implicated in certain forms of leukemia. Neurotransmitter enzymes are responsible for the transmission of signals to muscle nerves. Parkinson’s disease is attributed to the slow deterioration of nerve signals which are triggered by quaternary enzymes (ie. acetylcholine). Studies have concluded that Parkinson’s disease is probably caused by unknown environmental triggers (12).  Enzymes have been implicated in the growth of cancerous tumors and certain forms of leukemia (13).


Scientists have recently discovered that Alzheimer’s disease is attributed to particular protein fragments (amyloid betapeptides) which have been cut off or cleaved from a larger amyloid protein molecule by a particular protease enzyme referred to as BACE (11). While the chemistry of this reaction may be quite different from that of quaternary amines, it does emphasize that people who are exposed to chemicals that cleave proteins invite a serious health risk. The origin of Alzheimer’s disease has been attributed to the cleavage of proteins in the body, the same type of cleavage reaction that detergent enzymes promote in order to increase cleaning efficiency. Since detergent residues are normally present on dishes, drinking glasses, and eating utensils, the possibility of ingestion exists for all individuals. Laundry detergents leave residual detergents on clothes which may be subsequently absorbed by the body after contact with the skin. Hence most if not all individuals are exposed to these chemicals on a daily basis, both internally and externally.


Conclusion

It is clear that our health is dependent upon a delicate balance of chemistry between enzymes, hormones, vitamins and genes. Whereas the interdependence between these four organic species is highly complicated and not too well understood, minor disturbances can lead to catastrophic results. The introduction of a highly reactive biochemical agent such as a detergent enzyme into the human body may disrupt these complex reactions that are essential to good health and survival.

Thanks for the reading Gentlemen;
Good Fortune too;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

[nick.solution]

Hi Guys

It should be noted that the enzyme in Allergstop IS A NATURAL enzyme and as already mentioned uses the Key lock principle in that a specific enzyme for a specific job the product has been thoroughly tested and even at 5 times its strengh does not cause a reaction in humans 30 patch tested were completed for both inhalation and dermatology, The enzyme which is extracted from the Papaya fruit , which is also used to stimulate the bodies natural immune system.

Papaya fruit extracts:-

It also has potential as a therapeutic agent in many diseases associated with oxidative stress, positive effects have been documented with; Diabetes, Cancer, Aids, Parkinson, Alzheimer's, Psoriasis, Atherosclerosis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Hepatitis, Asthma, Cataract, Epilepsy, Ischemic Reperfusion Injury. It allows patients to recover a better quality of life and safely supports conventional disease treatment, particularly heavy treatments such as chemo and radiotherapy.
 
A complimentary food supplement to medicines and drugs known to deplete immunity and reduce the bodies natural antioxidant compounds and enzymes.
 

Best regards Nick

[Ken Wainwright]

Hi Nick

Sounds like another great product from Solutions.

Could you tell me if you take it before, during or after meals? 

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Dynafoam]

Truly some excellent replies here, especially the detailed information supplied by Ed.

It should be remembered that enzymes are proteins that have the ability tho break down other proteins - the building blocks of all animal life. For this reason alone they should all be treated with caution.

The fact that a protein is naturally occurring is in itself no guarantee that it is safe. Most of the venoms that occur in nature are in fact protein-based.

On the other hand, without certain proteins we could not exist - amylase and ptylin, for example, are components of saliva that start the digestion of fats by breaking them down to fatty acids and glycerol.

Apart from the health risks highlighted by Ed, the main reason that enzyme cleaning products not used in enclose environments (e.g.. a washing machine) are soon to be banned is that in use  there is a risk of aerosol droplets being inhaled and any un-rinsed residue can form an air-borne dust which can also enter the lungs - which are composed of the same protein groups many of the employed enzymes are designed to attack.

Where a specific enzyme (e.g. auxillase) has been properly tested for a specified application and used exactly as directed, I would have little reservation over its' use.

[Ed Valentine]

I must admit that John Bolton always has a much better way of explaining than most, including myself at the top of that list.

Great explaination John. And, it was refreshing to see that your temporary sabatical from the boards was never interupted by the valuable information you have always offered and continue to do so.

Thank you, and a sincere Welcome back!!!.

Good Fortune to all;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

[Dynafoam]

Ed,

Thanks for your kind words but my few words pale in the light of your post.

And you are a pretty good wordsmith for a darn foreigner 

Respectfully,

John.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

For me the main point with any enzyme is that we have very little knowledge of any of the medium term effects of the use  of chemicals , but short term experience is raising some worrying results.

To say something is naturally occurring and therefore safe is plain nonsense , plutonium for example.

As some of you know I am an advocate of the minimum chemical approach and believe using one chemical to fight the effects of another chemical is fundamentally unsound.

Cheers,

Doug

[jcbdfa]

most of my research into enzymes suggests exactly the opposite of what everyone here is suggesting? the article ed v lifted for his post is the only one to hint that they may cause a problem. try searching under enzyme cleaners on yahoo. does anyone actually know which enzymes are in which products? one huge benefit of enzymes as nick has identified is that they are great to kill microbes, bacteria etc. this is why they are such effective deodorisers. one other thing is they are perfectly enviromentally friendly. the phosphates, solvents, etc used in detergents microsplitters etc are lethal to fish, plants etc. read the cossh msds sheets enzyme cleaners invariably have the least worrying phrases. i personally have less health concerns using enzymes than using many other products.

[Dynafoam]

jcb...etc.,

I suggest that you repeat your research, there is sufficient evidence that many of the enzymes commonly used in out industry are detrimental to health that their use is to be banned in open-environment application.

[jcbdfa]

john b
could you point me towards the relevant reading as i do use them and if they are dodgy i will chuck mine away.
cheers

[Doug Holloway]

jc,

What really put me off was a discussion I had with an enzyme chemist when I was developing these products a few years ago.

When I said I was using them in an open enviroment he was really worried and explained about the problem of dust causing asthma sensitisation.

Having just helped out at a cub weekend where one of the older scouts (12) had died from an asthma attack , this obviously affected me.

I am not trying to be alarmist but the fact that some companies have already withdrawn these products must say something.

Tread carefully,

Cheers,

Doug

[nick.solution]

Doug

With respect>>

It comes across as alarmist, it would help if you actually knew what you were talking about, Natural enzyme cannot be compared to Plutonium in any sense of the word, here is some information for you perhaps it will help.
AllergSTOP®

The Intelligent Solution
For various forms of Allergy

The most frequent allergic cause of respiratory illnesses are plant pollen and spores, house dust, animal hair and mould spores

Patent 101 04 479 and PCT/EP 02/09684

Different types of allergies are on the increase.

1.   Mites, one of the causes of these allergies, can be found everywhere.  Mites live off human skin flakes that consist mainly of keratin protein.  The best conditions for small dust mites (0.1 – 0.5 mm) is a climate with temperatures around 25°C and air humidity of 70 – 80%.  Up to 10 million mites alone live in a mattress.  A two year old pillow can have up to 10% of its weight made up of mites and their excrement.  Humans lose approx. 1.5 g of hair and skin flakes each day – enough to feed around 1.5 million mites.  However, the mites are not the real problem.  The elements in the house dust that cause the allergy come directly from the secretions of the mites whose main component is protein, namely essentially polypeptides in the form of protein chains.

2.   Mould spores are one of the most significant causes of allergic diseases indoors.  Moulds are found on food, on wallpaper, in the bathroom and in all moist corners of the house.  Complaints include colds, coughs and sneezing attacks.  The most significant moult causing allergies are: aspergillus, penicillium, fusarium, alternaria, botrytis, mucor and cladosporium.

3.   Another allergic effect comes from the keratin of fine animal hair.  Almost one in three families keep pets and cats live in nearly half of the households.  Usually substances from the skin and salivary glands, which stick to the hairs, cause the allergy.

4.   Plant pollen and plant spores
Pollen is the cause of 86% of allergic reactions.  From February till into October the pollen from grass and rye, trees and herbs causes problems to many people in the form of hay fever.

There are many products from the “allergy industry” to combat all of the complaints.  Air purifier, vacuum cleaners with special filters, latex and foam mattresses just to mention but a few.  It is also recommended to get rid of the carpet, to take away the cuddly toy animals or to part from the beloved pet.

We solve the allergy problem differently, that is to say, intelligently.

Let us look at the mite problem closer.
Up to now anti-mite agents which destroy the mites have been used in this area.  For example terpenes in a watery solution are used to destroy amongst other things mites.

The task of our new patent was to use an agent and/or a combination agent which eliminates allergy reactive mite excrement, mould spores, pollen spores and also fine animal hair.

 The problem was solved by using an agent to inhibit mite excrement and/or mould spores, whereby a type of enzyme (Auxillase) is used as an agent that breaks down the polypeptides of the mite excrement in the form of protein chains in oligopeptides (monopeptides, bipeptides and tripeptides) and/or the mould spores and in this way the broken down products no longer cause allergic reactions on humans.
The agent can also be a combination agent of several of the above enzymes together with water and/or the addition of other cleaning agents, aromas and preservatives.

The agent can also be used to denature animal hair keratin, so that in this way the broken down products no longer cause allergic reactions on humans.


The answer from SOLUTION Glöckner: AllergSTOP® based on the patented system of Auxillase (enzyme from papaya fruit).

The assortment contains at the moment:

Room spray, mattress spray, surface cleaner, carpet & upholstery cleaner and powder.  Room spray works immediately.  The other products have to act for approximately 10 minutes.  Procedures can be repeated without any trouble since the substance is purely biological and harmless to humans.  It is sufficient to clean carpets and upholstery twice a year.

Résumé:

The advantage for the user is very evident:

Maintenance of a high level of quality of life, because AllergSTOP® provides with its manifold range of products a significantly reduced air allergen burden.  Non-dangerous contents allow repeated treatments with the active agents.

The following products are available:

Room spray
Mattress spray
Carpet and upholstery cleaner
Carpet and upholstery cleaner for wool. Woolsafe® approved
Surface cleaner
Powder

Additional products, such as nasal spray / nasal ointment are in preparation, allowing the concerned allergic persons more mobility outdoors.  Furthermore, filter systems for ventilation and air conditioning are under way. Thus, ALLERGSTOP® makes an enormous contribution to quality of life and health.  The career of an allergic hay fever to asthmatics caused by air allergens may soon be a thing of the past.  All effects are scientifically proven and based on practical examinations (as per enclosed).

Dermatological tests (Dermatest 11/2003) of the active agents have been finished very positively (“Excellent/very good) as well.


I can supply more info if required

Best regards Nick

[nick.solution]

Here is more info on enzymes

Chemical Nature of Enzymes
All known enzymes are proteins. They are high molecular weight compounds made up principally of chains of amino acids linked together by peptide bonds.

Enzymes can be denatured and precipitated with salts, solvents and other reagents. They have molecular weights ranging from 10,000 to 2,000,000.
Many enzymes require the presence of other compounds - cofactors - before their catalytic activity can be exerted. This entire active complex is referred to as the holoenzyme; i.e., apoenzyme (protein portion) plus the cofactor (coenzyme, prosthetic group or metal-ion-activator) is called the holoenzyme.
Apoenzyme + Cofactor = Holoenzyme
According to Holum, the cofactor may be:
1. A coenzyme - a non-protein organic substance which is dialyzable, thermostable and loosely attached to the protein part.
2. A prosthetic group - an organic substance which is dialyzable and thermostable which is firmly attached to the protein or apoenzyme portion.
3. A metal-ion-activator - these include K+, Fe++, Fe+++, Cu++, Co++, Zn++, Mn++, Mg++, Ca++, and Mo+++.
Specificity of Enzymes
One of the properties of enzymes that makes them so important as diagnostic and research tools is the specificity they exhibit relative to the reactions they catalyze. A few enzymes exhibit absolute specificity; that is, they will catalyze only one particular reaction. Other enzymes will be specific for a particular type of chemical bond or functional group. In general, there are four distinct types of specificity:
·   Absolute specificity - the enzyme will catalyze only one reaction.
·   Group specificity - the enzyme will act only on molecules that have specific functional groups, such as amino, phosphate and methyl groups.
·   Linkage specificity - the enzyme will act on a particular type of chemical bond regardless of the rest of the molecular structure.
·   Stereochemical specificity - the enzyme will act on a particular steric or optical isomer.
Though enzymes exhibit great degrees of specificity, cofactors may serve many apoenzymes. For example, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) is a coenzyme for a great number of dehydrogenase reactions in which it acts as a hydrogen acceptor. Among them are the alcohol dehydrogenase, malate dehydrogenase and lactate dehydrogenase reactions.
Naming and Classification
Except for some of the originally studied enzymes such as pepsin, rennin, and trypsin, most enzyme names end in "ase". The International Union of Biochemistry (I.U.B.) initiated standards of enzyme nomenclature which recommend that enzyme names indicate both the substrate acted upon and the type of reaction catalyzed. Under this system, the enzyme uricase is called urate: O2 oxidoreductase, while the enzyme glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase (GOT) is called L-aspartate: 2-oxoglutarate aminotransferase.
Enzymes can be classified by the kind of chemical reaction catalyzed.
1.   Addition or removal of water
1.   Hydrolases - these include esterases, carbohydrases, nucleases, deaminases, amidases, and proteases
2.   Hydrases such as fumarase, enolase, aconitase and carbonic anhydrase
2.   Transfer of electrons
1.   Oxidases
2.   Dehydrogenases
3.   Transfer of a radical
1.   Transglycosidases - of monosaccharides
2.   Transphosphorylases and phosphomutases - of a phosphate group
3.   Transaminases - of amino group
4.   Transmethylases - of a methyl group
5.   Transacetylases - of an acetyl group
Splitting or forming a C-C bond
6.   Desmolases
4.   Changing geometry or structure of a molecule
1.   Isomerases
5.   Joining two molecules through hydrolysis of pyrophosphate bond in ATP or other tri-phosphate
1.   Ligases

There is plenty more available

Best regards Nick

[strakercleaning]

Done a bit of light reading over the weekend then Nick