[matt]

our pure water isnt really that pure

i use water thats upto 010 TDS

its rained with purer water

so when i am in orlando and it rains, i need to dash for cover before it melts my mickey mouse eye hat

[Clive McDonald]

mike the chamois.

As you say we are all getting a bit pedantic, but this thread as ftp and others point out is full of rubbish. Hot water is pref
ered by all who try it.The negative posts come from those who haven't got it.

Stop thinking and start doing-and guess what- you'll make some money, and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

Even if you buy a top of the range ionics thermopure it will still be the best money you ever spend.

[chrisyg]

If hot water is not more agressive how does it clean better? Everyone seems to ignore this simple point.

The water must be heated to a high enough temperature to alter its characteristics, otherwise there would be no point doing it.

In my experience pure water only makes holes in COTTON. e.g 100% pure cotton t-shirt.

OK think back to double science at school..

by heating anything you give it energy, the molecules move around more.. these molecules moving around in the heated water will dislodge more of the contamination/bird cr*p, etc on the window..

Look at it another way - when you heat something it will melt, from its solid state to a liquid so its easier to remove, so that could be the same for bird cr*p on the window.

It comes out warm from the birds innards about 30-40 degrees - when you put warm/hot water on the dried (frozen) solid state bird cr*p, it melts it, making it easier to remove..

Only logic really..

[matt]

If hot water is not more agressive how does it clean better? Everyone seems to ignore this simple point.

The water must be heated to a high enough temperature to alter its characteristics, otherwise there would be no point doing it.

In my experience pure water only makes holes in COTTON. e.g 100% pure cotton t-shirt.

OK think back to double science at school..

by heating anything you give it energy, the molecules move around more.. these molecules moving around in the heated water will dislodge more of the contamination/bird cr*p, etc on the window..

Look at it another way - when you heat something it will melt, from its solid state to a liquid so its easier to remove, so that could be the same for bird cr*p on the window.

It comes out warm from the birds innards about 30-40 degrees - when you put warm/hot water on the dried (frozen) solid state bird cr*p, it melts it, making it easier to remove..

Only logic really..

indeed 

[Oakley Windows]

If hot water is not more agressive how does it clean better? Everyone seems to ignore this simple point.

The water must be heated to a high enough temperature to alter its characteristics, otherwise there would be no point doing it.

In my experience pure water only makes holes in COTTON. e.g 100% pure cotton t-shirt.

Bloody 'ell....................

.............which is why you wash dishes in hot-water, you use hot-water in the washing machine and the dish-washer uses.....guess what   ...yup, you guessed it HOT WATER !!!!

By the way Im cold WFP

Thats not hot water that makes holes in your cotton t-shirt its your B.O. (well what else could it be?  ) your  washing machine dont make holes in t-shirts does it, why should wfp then?

[ftp]

I'd be looking for moths in the airing cupboard if i was you. 

[[GQC] Tim]

If hot water is not more agressive how does it clean better? Everyone seems to ignore this simple point.

The water must be heated to a high enough temperature to alter its characteristics, otherwise there would be no point doing it.

In my experience pure water only makes holes in COTTON. e.g 100% pure cotton t-shirt.

OK think back to double science at school..

by heating anything you give it energy, the molecules move around more.. these molecules moving around in the heated water will dislodge more of the contamination/bird cr*p, etc on the window..

Look at it another way - when you heat something it will melt, from its solid state to a liquid so its easier to remove, so that could be the same for bird cr*p on the window.

It comes out warm from the birds innards about 30-40 degrees - when you put warm/hot water on the dried (frozen) solid state bird cr*p, it melts it, making it easier to remove..

Only logic really..

I was just about to post something similar.

[NWH]

mike the chamois.

As you say we are all getting a bit pedantic, but this thread as ftp and others point out is full of rubbish. Hot water is pref
ered by all who try it.The negative posts come from those who haven't got it.

Stop thinking and start doing-and guess what- you'll make some money, and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

Even if you buy a top of the range ionics thermopure it will still be the best money you ever spend.

Couldn`t have put it better myself.

[mikethechamois]

thanks  

thats what i want to hear

i just wanted to be sure

at  the start of the year i put together a plan that includes

newer van

hot wfp

full wrap signwriting

marketing campaign

one slight hiccup...........................need more money

need to increase size of round....................bad start to year

then someone points out that hot wfp is acidic and could damage frames

so to above list  i need to add.................chill out

and stop worrying about nothing

[[GQC] Tim]

thanks  

thats what i want to hear

i just wanted to be sure

at  the start of the year i put together a plan that includes

newer van

hot wfp

full wrap signwriting

marketing campaign

one slight hiccup...........................need more money

need to increase size of round....................bad start to year

then someone points out that hot wfp is acidic and could damage frames

so to above list  i need to add.................chill out

and stop worrying about nothing

Newer van, maybe, some good deals on 3 year old ones, save thousands.

Hot wfp? Start with Cold, and save some money, in time, upgrade it to hot.

Full vehicle warp? A lot of money, not particularly necessary. Nice logo, name and telephone number, and what you do is all you need on there.

Marketing campaign, avoid yellow pages etc. just cost money, and doesn't net you much work. Canvass, canvass and canvass, and then some. Leave your leaflet and card everywhere. Do good work, and you will get more and more work.

[mikethechamois]

thanks tim

plan was ambitous but if you dont aim high you wont get anywhere

its better to aim too high and come in a bit lower than aim too low and hit your target

i like the idea of a trolly as some of my jobs are awkward from a van, not a problem trad but i would have a hose trailing halfway across the estate with wfp

[williamx]

http://blog.visiondecor.com/index.php/2008/11/18/the-explainer-why-does-hot-water-clean-better-than-cold-water/

The above link expalins why hot and cold are diferent in cleaning.

We all know why Pure Water cleans windows better than tap water, and the answer is that Pure Water is more aggresive than tap water and it also has less impurities in it than tap water.

So if Pure Water is aggresive when cold and we now know that when you heat up water it becomes more aggresive then it only logical that Hot Pure Water will be more aggressive than Cold Pure Water, and something this aggresive could cause problems on some materals.

I have had tee shirts that have developed holes in them quite quickly and the reason I know that its Pure water that is causing it is because I brought several of them and I only used a few for window cleaning the others I wore elsewere.

The ones I used for window cleaning devoloped holes while the other did not, It does not happen with every teeshirt.

I have noticed that in the summer it gets worser than the winter months, so it could be because the water is at a higher tempreture.

The same applies to the stinging of the eyes when some drops drip into my eyes, its stings more in the summer months than it does in the winter.

At the moment I use cold but I will be converting my system to hot soon, but I will be looking for signs of extra wear and tear on my customers windows and if I see any signs of damage occuring on them windows, then I will clean with cold.

As for Brodex bringing out a Hot Water system, well why not, hot water imo will only be damaging to a limited amount of customers houses, while the rest it will be perfectly ok for.

Wfp cleaning is a learning curve all the time, as more and more cleaners are using and modifing it, we come across new knowledge about wfp, and if we can learn from it then you can only get better at it.

[Frank pole]

I  only use hot in the winter! Keeps your line`s from freezing up - keep on working, keep on earning! at my heaters lowest setting I could only manage 18 deg at the brush head ( 58 deg from the heater ) that`s a loss of 30 deg over a 100 meter lengh of 8mm mini bore! as long as you are over 1 deg you are still working and earning!

[Oakley Windows]

So if Pure Water is aggresive when cold and we now know that when you heat up water it becomes more aggresive then it only logical that Hot Pure Water will be more aggressive than Cold Pure Water, and something this aggresive could cause problems on some materals.

No, not necessarily, just because its more aggressive than something doesnt mean its aggressive ENOUGH to start eating t-shirts and rotting window-sills, its water for gods sake, you drink it; your body is 87% water.

If thats the case why hasnt my kettle, shower, bath, washing-machine, swimmingpool all fallen apart at the joints? Why do my clothes come out the washing machine with no holes in them?

[macmac]

The whole "agressive" thing makes me laugh too. Why then do most people clean con' roofs with tap water then only rinse with pure? Have you ever cleaned windows with tap water? I have & they clean just the same as pure only obviously you're left with some disolved solids once the water has evaporated. I can clean my own windows with my tap water (80-90ppm) & they clean great, any dirt or bird poo isn't any harder to get off & dry leaving only minimal water marks!

I know why It's termed as agressive but come on, this has no bearing on cleaning power in reality, only to leave a spot free finnish.

Tony

[Oakley Windows]

The word 'aggressive' seems to be loosely used on this thread as if we're talking about sulphuric acid or something.

Why is that some people seem to loose all sense of sense on an internet forum 

[macmac]

The word 'aggressive' seems to be loosely used on this thread as if we're talking about sulphuric acid or something.

Why is that some people seem to loose all sense of sense on an internet forum 

My thoughts exactly!

Tony

[ftp]

All sorts of rubbish spouted about - it "eats" algae on conservatory roofs too, which is strange because algae grows quite well in pure water filled ibc's and van tanks. I've even read how pure water disolves dirt because it tries to revert to it's natural state. Total bunkum of course - the brush does the work and clean water washes the particles away. But because it's so clean the water can be left on the glass (which isn't sterile either  ).

[Oakley Windows]

Ive just done some research on 'holes in cotton'

someone posted on this thread that they'd had holes develop in their 100% cotton (in capital letters, to emphasise their point  ) and it could ONLY be put down to hot-WFP.

Anyway, back to the highly technical research Ive been inspired to participate in regarding the likelihood of holes developing in our garments when using hot pure water, it seems its a somewhat more common ailment of leaving the confines of your house than was obviously thought  

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=holes+in+cotton&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enGB278GB278

in other words, type in 'holes in cotton' into google and you have your solution  

It seems that quite simply it happens because ITS cotton   

[Oakley Windows]

I must admit, not meaning to beat a topic to death  , but I was rather surprised to find that no-one on those other forums suggested that the holes in the cotton garments might be caused by  hot pure water window cleaning systems. Perhaps some of us ought to join those forums and post on the relevant topics suggesting theyve been caused by a highly caustic/acidic and reactive chemical compound otherwise known as aqua which their window-cleaner is in all likelihood using