[williamx]

The other topic has been locked.

As a result of this the SLWCN has to push Councils for ALL to be licensed as it is totally unfair on licensed window cleaners.

.

And if you are sucessful then its equally unfair on the window cleaners who don't want a licence and have never used one.

If the Police are so worried about the many thousands of window cleaners who are carrying out crimimal activites, why don't they do their job and arrest them?

Its easy really, Mrs McJones arrives home from work and her house has been broken into.

Pc McPlod comes along and asks her who her window cleaner is? he then goes and arrests him, job done and another dirty crimimal is behind bars.

But is this window cleaner innocent? (free the 5000) what about the plumber/electrician/washing machine repairman or the other traders who have been INSIDE her house, and are not licenced (most window cleaners never go inside their customers homes).

Surely in a fair sociaty, every worker should be licenced?.

How many staff who work on tills have pocketed some of the money?
How many workers in the office have not taken the odd bit of supplies and equipment.

It has even happened in the "house of commons" a MP fiddled his expenses, maybe they should all be licenced?.

A licence WILL NOT stop a crook, if someone is willing to break the law and go to prison, do you think he will be deterred by a piece of paper, you will say that it stops him from getting into the trade, but what about the crooks who have not been caught, they have a clean record and they can have a licence and freedom to carry on their activites.

There are already laws in place to stop the dole boys and crooks, why use another by-law to stop something that a simple phone call will do.

Your final argument is that having a licence will increase the prices that window cleaner are charging, but will it? what about the semi retired who just want some pin money? they still won't increase their prices and some customers will not pay more.

Instead of trying to get the whole country licenced, why not educate the population to use traders who are registed to pay income tax, the inland revenue can issue a card that says you are registered and legal.

Educate the population to telephone the benefits agency and inland revenue and the police on anyone they know is breaking the law.

How many dole boys will have the nerve to go out working when they know that at least 10 people are informing on them.

How many house breakers will be able to sell their goods if instead of people buying them at your local,
they instead phoned the police?.

Now you get the ones who say "I'm not a grass" but would you be happy if it was your home or your mothers house and nobody took any action?.

[johns window kleen]

I ve got mixed feelings on this one. Can only see one major advantage in removing those who claim the dole whilst working.
Joe public I dont think generally care who cleans their windows, or if the person doing its on the dole. I might be wrong on that.
I wouldnt really want to pay for a licence, why should I as its just another tax, but I think that you should be able to demonstrate to the Local Authoritys that you have adequate insurance, and pay your National Insurance, and tax, at the very least.
They could issue a badge or something that you can flash If asked, and I would happily pay for the cost of a badge, but not, as I suspect someone would be rubbing their hands together because it generates more income, an inflated charge for such a thing.

[wightsurf]

what i don't get is this: From reading the other thread it said that the window cleaners that had NO licence got caught,But then applied for a licence>got licence>carried on working  :
Know this is plain stupid. It seems to me that go about your window cleaning as normal then if you get caught quickly apply for a licence.
I think if you have no licence then you get caught there should be something like a 2 month wait for licence review.
But then this is just my opinion.

[Mr.G]

The council tax arrears issue proves that it's nothing to do with preventing dole people from working, just another money grabbing tax...  if they were serious about stopping house theft, they'd issue licences to drive transit vans late at night, licences to wear hoodies in residential areas!

[simon knight]

The other topic has been locked.

As a result of this the SLWCN has to push Councils for ALL to be licensed as it is totally unfair on licensed window cleaners.

.

And if you are sucessful then its equally unfair on the window cleaners who don't want a licence and have never used one.

If the Police are so worried about the many thousands of window cleaners who are carrying out crimimal activites, why don't they do their job and arrest them?

Its easy really, Mrs McJones arrives home from work and her house has been broken into.

Pc McPlod comes along and asks her who her window cleaner is? he then goes and arrests him, job done and another dirty crimimal is behind bars.

But is this window cleaner innocent? (free the 5000) what about the plumber/electrician/washing machine repairman or the other traders who have been INSIDE her house, and are not licenced (most window cleaners never go inside their customers homes).

Surely in a fair sociaty, every worker should be licenced?.

How many staff who work on tills have pocketed some of the money?
How many workers in the office have not taken the odd bit of supplies and equipment.

It has even happened in the "house of commons" a MP fiddled his expenses, maybe they should all be licenced?.

A licence WILL NOT stop a crook, if someone is willing to break the law and go to prison, do you think he will be deterred by a piece of paper, you will say that it stops him from getting into the trade, but what about the crooks who have not been caught, they have a clean record and they can have a licence and freedom to carry on their activites.

There are already laws in place to stop the dole boys and crooks, why use another by-law to stop something that a simple phone call will do.

Your final argument is that having a licence will increase the prices that window cleaner are charging, but will it? what about the semi retired who just want some pin money? they still won't increase their prices and some customers will not pay more.

Instead of trying to get the whole country licenced, why not educate the population to use traders who are registed to pay income tax, the inland revenue can issue a card that says you are registered and legal.

Educate the population to telephone the benefits agency and inland revenue and the police on anyone they know is breaking the law.

How many dole boys will have the nerve to go out working when they know that at least 10 people are informing on them.

How many house breakers will be able to sell their goods if instead of people buying them at your local,
they instead phoned the police?.

Now you get the ones who say "I'm not a grass" but would you be happy if it was your home or your mothers house and nobody took any action?.

Absolutely 100% agree with everything you've written.

[mikethechamois]

i dont understand why the other topic was locked

freedom of speech and a frank exchange of views is essential for a democracy to work

i dont agree witha lot of things that are said on here but ill still defend that persons right to say it

so come on da you could have got a proper gauge of feelings had you let the topic run

do we want to be licenced...................yes

anything that helps legit wcs differentiate from the chancers

do we want the system that scotland has..............not on your life

it comes as no surprise that it was the police that pushed for licencing and had to involve the council to make it legal

the whole thing has been setup as a crime prevention tool and is going to be very difficult now to undo and setup as a means to protect the consumer from the real threats of using rogue traders.

the best way forward is for the remainder of the uk to pre empt all this nonsense and license ourselves to our own set of standards and then ask the council to back us by reccomending to householders they use wcs licenced under this scheme

trading standards have a safe contractor scheme that covers all traders but its very expensive and i cant really see the benifit as the public are not very aware of it

[cozy]

Hi there, Find it strange that the Govt' hasn't really followed through on licences, as its a way of keeping TAX tabs on self employed ppl. Over here (Guurmany) ANY business must be registered b4 it even deals with the first custy contact.
 Just thought I would stick my 2d worth

[mikethechamois]

you have 12 weeks to inform the authorities of a new business,

thats not the problem

the problem we have here is the number of window cleaners who have no intention of registering as it would affect their benefits ,they are also uninsured

they are a real threat to the legit wc as they are only looking for a bit of extra cash and work for ridiculously low rates that a legit wc cant compete with and run a business................householders take advantage and resent paying a proper rate..............we want these idiots out of the game

hence gettinghouseholders to only employ genuine legitiate  proffesional wcs

[wightsurf]

The police should fine the house holders then: for being a  accomplice to commit a crime
only joking

[mikethechamois]

many a true word is said in jest

householders should be fined for employing a trader that is working illegally

i think the law already exists but the law is knowingly employing etc

if wcs hd to prove they were legit to get a licence them anyone employing an unlicenced wc would risk breaking the law

[drwindows]

er, what?  I don't want a license!  And who appointed da services to push councils for a license!

Stay up there in scotland please! We dont want licensing here thank you very much!

[wightsurf]

drwindows
When you say we,is that we as in you and your company or are you speaking for others. If so who ?
As i would maybe ,, like to see a licence in place but under the right type of management

[jaykie]

drwindows
When you say we,is that we as in you and your company or are you speaking for others. If so who ?
As i would maybe ,, like to see a licence in place but under the right type of management

was about to say the samething

[Ian Lancaster]

As always it's a case of putting the cart before the horse.

Assume that licences become mandatory:

The PURPOSE of introducing licences should be to prevent the illegal operations of people who take advantage of the simplicity of the job to augment their benefits/avoid paying taxes/case joints for burglary etc.

The EFFECT  of introducing licences will be to restrict the legitimate business people who obey the rules anyway.  It WILL NOT have any effect on anyone who doesn't want to join, or doesn't even know there is a requirement to be licenced.

DO YOU REALLY THINK that the councils/police etc are going to patrol the streets looking for unlicenced window cleaners?  Even if they found some, there would be no power of arrest as it wouldn't be a felony, so the unlicensed wc would give false credentials, promise to be a good boy then be straight back up his ladder the minute the official's back was turned.

Licensing will only work if it is rigorously enforced.

How many unlicensed vehicles are there on the road?  Even with the zeal that the police apply to the 'soft' option to enhance their reporting rate there are milllions of untaxed cars.  If they can't control that situation do you really think there's any chance of enforcing licences for window cleaners?

The only ones with licences will be the likes of you and me, the law abiding, tax paying easy targets.

We'll pay the fees, put up with intrusive scrutiny and Joe Bloggs invisible window cleaner will continue blythley with his unregulated, uninsured, untaxed benefit cheating lifestyle exactly as he has always done.

SO TELL ME:  WHAT'S THE POINT OF BEING LICENCED?

[DASERVICES]

Firstly can I say I have no intentions to play any part of licensing in England.

William totally agree with what you are saying.

Probably what should happen in England is a tax enforcement officer who is employed to catch out those who work illegally in all trades and con people.

Or why don't the DWP come up with system on line where you can input someone who you think is working illegally. This could be done by entering the persons car reg number or a phone number. So anyone who canvassed your area type in the contact number.

If the person is legit then fair play to the person if not then it helps protect your run which you took years building up.

Just a thought.

[williamx]

Doug

The DWP have quite a few methods for the public to report benefit fraud.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/campaigns/benefit-thieves/

Why should it only be England that has inland revenue enforcement officer, why cannot Scotland - Wales and Northern Ireland also have one.

[johns window kleen]

It appears that the main reason many are wanting the trade to be licensed is to get rid of a lot of the cheap competition, is it not?
I think we all get wound up by the dole cheats who do the job for peanuts, and con society in general, but its not restricted to window cleaners only is it.
The inference regarding house thefts and casing joints is frankly insulting. Is this what the public really think some of us are like?
Mine are happy to give me their security codes to enter, leave the back open for me, even in areas that are being targetted for thefts.
Man if some scum are using this job to case houses, I would weep, but if their thieves,then their thieves aint they?

Maybe im too naive.

And as said if the authorities arent going to enforce/persue it is pointless really.

Taxi drivers tried to force mini cab drivers to become licensed I believe as the number of illegals was wrecking their trade, did they not.

They did this primarily because of the unfair competition, not because of the threats to the female passengers of rape and assault. What worked in their favour was that high profile attacks by some of these dodgy mini cab drivers meant that the authorities had to take some action and impose licensing. Cant say that applies to us guys really.

[DASERVICES]

William,

In Scotland the DWP already have an input. Any person applying for a license their details are forwarding to the DWP. What I am also hearing as well those caught without licenses also their information will be passed on so it is already happening here.

What I am also hearing there is a bill that will go through Scottish Parlaiment where a civilain officer will now have the powers to fine people but that is in the pipe line. Also Trading Standards are getting more prowers, one for you guys to watch but that is up to the FED to be involved.

What they are doing is part of cold calling which they will have more powers. One of which is leaflet dropping where they check the details and pass on the relevant information.

There is a lot of change going on which we are finding out but cannot comment if this is also including England, Wales etc..

I'm just keeping an eye on meetings this end.

[mikethechamois]

your right william

ive never been a grass...............it goes against the grain

but im getting incensed now, i know from my self emloyed mates in the building trade that if i went to the benefits office i wouldnt be eligible for dole

ive always worked ,if i sat round i would be housed and given benifits worth about £15000 a year, how many windows do we have to clean to clear that kind of money after tax etc

its our contributions that keeps the benefit system afloat

and to add insult to injury they continue to take money from our pockets by undercutting us

rant over  

   im not a grass but im getting to the stage now where i would report them

[mikethechamois]

the thing is doug are they going to fine the householder as well or just the unlicensed wc

i know its off topic but they gave up prosecuting prostitutes and started prosecuting their punters