[CRAIG LIND]

excuse my ignorance, but can anyone tell me how microsplitting actually works? and is it better than your standard detergents.
Would i benefit from using this, as the majority of my work is domestic or is texatherm better still.

[strakercleaning]

Search 'microsplitters' then sit down for weekend and wade through it 

[ABLECLEAN]

Contact Nick at Solution UK Ltd.

on 01726 852880 He will clue you up and is very helpful.

[paul@ctcs]

Inside out Cleaning,
 
Where a conventional detergent bonds to soiling a microsplitter disperses (shatters) soiling  making it easily extracted or removed. One major benefit of this is non resoiling, any detergent residue will inevitably cause resoiling ( see thread running on this subject ) this is not the case with microsplitters. Another bonus is not needing to neutralise alkaline pre sprays due to microsplitters self neutralising, this does away with using an acidic rince (in 99% of cases) thus saving money 
As well as great results MS are safe to use where some detergents are not so confidence enspiring
The above benefits explained in laymans terms to customers is also a great sales pitch which has won me a great deal of work.

Regards

Paul

[Mike Halliday]

 'One major benefit of this is non resoiling, any detergent residue will inevitably cause resoiling'

where do people get this crap from!  I'd like to see scientific proof this statement is true.

its getting to a piont where I feel if enough people said ' detergents cause your skin to turn blue' everyone  would start believing it :

Don't people realise that the sellers of Microsplitters are perpetuating this myth to aid the sales of thier chemicals.

are we all parrots!!

detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling
detergents cause resoiling

[paul@ctcs]

Mike,

If your read what I said you will see the words " Detergent RESIDUE will cause resoiling"

Now that is a fact!!

Squark!!

Paul

[ian richards]

ORDER!!!! ORDER!!!!

[nick.solution]

Hi

For clarification, if a detergent based chemical is used correctly and followed with a acid rinse the risk of a detegent residue is reduced to a minimal level, However if a non detergent based chemical is used then there is no residue to cause re-soiling therefore the re-soil process is slower.

Best regards Nick

[strakercleaning]

Simple........if my kids wash hands with soap and dont rinse off.
I SEND THEM BACK TO RINSE PROPERLY................ not becauase i have been brainwashed by the manufacturers of microsplitters. 
But because common sense tells anyone that it will go sticky.

Moving on now, to Rocket science................................

[Mike Halliday]

Paul says its a fact, so it must be true : :

Paul, at which university did you study chemical analysis? I know what you said because I cut & pasted it, so let me ask the question again ' where is the scientific proof that detergent residue causes resoiling'

Chris with all due respect your kid washing their hand & carpet cleaning is a completely different comparrison. Soap is designed to be rinsed off, detergents are designed to be safe when left in the carpet.

All I want is an independant study ( not someone with a vested interest in selling non-detergent chemical s) to say 'when used correctly detergent residue will cause resoiling'

Mike

[strakercleaning]

Mike......... with even more respect.
Detergents may be made to be safe when left in the carpets but safe is not unsticky. Soap is, as you say meant to be rinsed, but I was under the impression that detergents should be rinsed from carpets also. Is this not the sole purpose of Fibre Rinse type products, meant to be free rinsing and to neutralise the high ph of detergent pre-treatments.
Mike, you ask the question " where is the scientific proof that detergent residue causes resoiling"
Tip a small amount on any flat surface, porous or not and watch what sticks to it over a period of time. If this is then wiped off, invariably, it will takes 2 or 3 passes to fully remove. Translate this to carpet and vacuum passes and (even) you must admit that the sticky patch will become darker as the vacuum continually fails to lift the soil that is stuck.
I used detergents for 20 years before getting onto microsplitters and know that they can be rinsed out leaving a non resoiling carpet. What i, and most others ,are trying to emphasise is that the use of ms makes the rinsing process less drastic/harsh and takes away the risk/guesswork when it comes to resoiling.

ps........... off to pick up my kids now and see if they understand that explanation :

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

Mick I think you are making a very valid point and have thought for some time that the NCCA could run independant comparative tests on subjects like resoiling.

It would be useful to test different chemical types and also different methods.

Different manufacturers will obviously make different claims and they are hardly likely to say that their products cause faster resoiling.

One reason I stayed out of the main stream CC community for all these years was that after having attended a cleaning course in 1982 , I left feeling there was an awful lot of psuedo bull poop and very little science.

Bearing in mind that I was working as a chemist then I suppose my expectations may have been higher than was realistic.

Protector products have been damaged by the claims made which were just not achievable

Another industry which is even worse is beauty products , it costs me a fortune indirectly.
How many 60 year olds do you see who look 30? Answer =None

Just becuse a salesman tells you somrthing 20 times dosen't make it any truer.

Remember 'weapons of mass destruction'

Cheers,

Doug

[Dynafoam]

Mike,

Much as I would like to argue with you (just for the fun of it  ), your point has some validity.

I have amassed enough observational evidence to be convinced that:

1) Different detergent formulations have differing re-soil characteristics.

2) All detergents, by their very nature, have the potential to contribute toward accelerated re-soiling.

3) The quantity of detergent residue will clearly have an effect.

Experience also tell me that a well-formulated detergent-based product, used at the correct dilution rate and with the minimum left in the carpet will not accelerate the re soiling to a noticeable degree. This I have tested in public buildings by clear-rinsing test strips across traffic lanes and observing the results before the next clean. Too rough-and-ready to be scientific, but good enough for real-world testing.

I do feel however that a product that has no re-soil characteristics can make a significant difference in instances where the cleaner fails to remove sufficient product from the carpet .

[strakercleaning]

Doug. I see that you say that Mick has a valid point. Why am i not surprised that you would only see his side of the discussion. You are, blatantly, not a fan of ms or the suppliers.
Any chemical left on a carpet, other than a rinsing agent, is a bad thing. FACT
Soapy residue is sticky. FACT
I am no manufacturer, supplier or chemist BUT i have 22 years top end carpet cleaning experience and a sound mind.
I used detergents successfully and would probably still be doing so, had i not used ms.
I seek a chemical that will get me the results i know to be the highest without all the heavy work and expense of chemically rinsing detergents.
My customer base is big and goes back a long way so all my customers have not seen the difference since using ms but those that have have commented on "how i managed to do the job so efficiently", " how quick it has dried" and "how much longer it took to look or feel dirty again"
Testaments from customers who are Lawyers, Doctors, Company Directors, Actors, Politicians and Arch Bishops etc. Surely they are not as brainwashed or naive as you seem to think us mere mortal non chemist CCs are.

[paul@ctcs]

Mike,

I did get an A in chemistry

As you know detergents have water attracting molecular chains and water repelling components. The water attracting molecule means that one end of the molecule bonds with water, while the other side is bonds to soiling. The  flushing action of the extraction process will carry the detergent which in turn  pulls the grime away from the carpet fibres.
It is unlikely with even the most powerful extraction equipment that 100% of the detergent will be removed from the carpet, therefore causing a degree of resoiling however minimal. I imagine this would become more evident with “ In Tank” detergents.

Regards

Paul

P.S. What do you mean with this comment??

"not someone with a vested interest in selling non-detergent chemical s"

A vested interest lol!! I dont benefit from Nicks sales whatsoever but I wished I did

[Doug Holloway]

Chris,

I said it would be good to get independant tests carried out by a neutral body on the resoiling of different chemicals / methods.

I think this puts me in the middle  and I certainly use both MS and detergents and will almost certainly continue to do so.

I am trying to be objective and agree that the extra effort required in the MS process does give a good impression and oozes professionalism.

As to your point on brainwashing then Archbishops , lawyers and politicans would be candidates!

Cheers,

Doug

p.s

It would be intersting to see the MK dons reception after a month or two ,with all the different methods employed there.

[Dennis]

The only "scientific" discussion I have seen is in Eric Brown's Fundamentals of Carpet Maintenance.(p50)

 The worst resoiler was...........
plain tap water!

Woolsafe do test but whether the results are freely available I don't know.

CCP 9

    * Determination of the resoiling propensity of carpet maintenance products (BS 4088: Section 1.1)
    * Specimens of carpet are pre-cleaned with the cleaning product and soiled according to CCP 17; the soiling level of the cleaned and soiled product is compared with that of the original, not cleaned, carpet.

[nick.solution]

Hi Guys

An intersting debate, the over-riding factor is "if used correctly"

Most products will achieve the result they were designed to achieve, as someone with a vested interest, their are more reasons to use M/S than just there cleaning capabilities, how many detergent based products contain or are said to contain harmfull components and carcinagens, isn't this more imprtant we as carpet cleaners are closer to the chemicals than any-one.

Best regards Nick

[Matt Read]

Just wondered if an ms convert could explain this....lifted from a another thread :

'I have been using MS for 6 months now and am v.happy, but have noticed alot of dare i say residue around the bottle tops which is white and crusty, any ideas? Hope this doesnt mean im leaving a residue allbeit small in the carpet after cleaning. '

Thanks

[Len Gribble]

Matt

I’m no techno would have thought self explanatory it’s in it undiluted form, the same thing happens with the other agents I use think it called crystallisation and yes one can leave cleaning agent residue in the carpet, it called bad wand technique , even if you are rinsing with h2o.

Len