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Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« on: March 15, 2005, 07:24:20 am »
This post leads on from the one that Windows_chepstow started, Tosh (Windows_Chepstow) Was doing a large Hotel, 2 of them taking 2 or 3 days to clean it.
In window cleaning terms this is a big job (Well it sure as heck is for most of us :-\) and therefore presumably a job running into hundreds of pounds per clean.
Tosh has let the job go as it is badly under priced.

Now the thrust of this post is: What sort of commercial work pays the best?

I'm not talking about the kind of shops that I myself do, a couple of quid a time and perhaps a minute or two to clean. Theoretically that can be £200 per hour, but that is garbage, in practice it simply isn't possible to have enough of them close enough together for that to happen.

In real terms my best accounts are a few offices I have that are between £50 and £75 per clean (I have one at £80, but it is murder :-\ I really have to work to earn my money on it).

Small enough for the money to still be a relatively tiny bill for a thriving office to pay out.
But if I am going to charge, say, £500 to do a job that is only going to take me 14 hours, and therefore only 2 days work (one person) Then the manager of such a place is going to seriously look at how much his office/factory/hotel is having to pay out.

How many of you out there would happily work for 2 days, guaranteed work every month, for less than half of that?? mm?

Lets say you are happy to work for £100 a day (I am well aware there are many out there that don't earn £100 per day) It is 14 hours work without busting a gut. Still good money?....Maybe.

Lets say you need the work, the price you have to beat has now fallen from £500 down to £200. At £500 our original window cleaner had allowed 14 hours to do the job, and at that price it was a top notch job.
The guy that put in the price for £200 has to put a bit of effort in, but he can still do a top job, and can finish it comfortably in the 2 days.
You have come along and have assessed that if you bang it out you can shave a good 4 hours of the time. In fact, start nice and early, work a ten hour day and you can get it done in one day.
150 quid guv!
Now that is pretty good money for a days work, but you are having to work at breakneck pace, sod the frames, just the glass and sills, those little frosted toilet windows? no one is going to notice if you don't clean those.
And so on.

The manager thinks he is getting value for money, £500 down to £150.

He is probably getting a cr*p job done too.

Is there any truth in the above premise?

Are you better off sticking with commercial work under, say, £100?

Or do the big ones pay you good money?

This isn't really a question for the big companies, more really I think for the average one and two man bands.

And bear in mind I'm not talking about domestic work.

Any views anyone??

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Duke

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2005, 03:33:58 pm »
Don't know Ian, would love to help...but we stay well away from commercial as a rule......and two days to do a job !!!....I start getting bored if I'm on one domestic for an hour...I like to keep the scenery moving...lol

rosskesava

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2005, 04:33:46 pm »
Hi Ian

Blimey .... what a posting....

There's 3 of us in our outfit and with regards pricing, I have gone through mental gymnastics about large and small commercial jobs to arrive at a simple conclusion.

Whatever job we are doing, bearing in mind there are 3 of us doing it, when pricing larger commercial jobs up we need to earn a minimum of £27.50 an hour but we aim for £35 an hour.

Shops are £2 per large window per week and £1 per small window or door and if there is more than 6 windows or doors in total, then it's 50p extra per window or door.

If a job is to far out of our way then we don't do it regardless as in our experience if we are short of time for any reason, then it's those jobs that become the problem. All our commercial work is along a 12 mile stretch of the coast and the furthest we go inland is about 2 miles.

We have been turned down quite a number of times as some owners/companies have expected prices so low that the job is not really worth it. What I do with those places is to keep an eye on them every month as sometimes they have found someone to do the job at a cheap price but then months later the windows are not being cleaned again and guess why? I call on them again and a number have then accepted my original quote.

We do still have a number of seriously underpriced jobs from when we started about 2 years ago and when any work was needed. Bit by bit those are all paying a higher price and some work has gone by the wayside and some more will be dropped over the coming months.

What we are now left with is mainly good to very good priced jobs.

With regards your question about the price of jobs? With lager jobs we price by the time we think it will take to do, and with smaller jobs and shops, it's priced per window etc.

Roy Harding

  • Posts: 1973
Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2005, 04:34:02 pm »
Spot on Ian

I have found what happens is the manager goes for the best quote as he’s on a budget, the window cleaner picks up better work or easier, and lets them down.

Because the manager has paid x amount in the past that’s what he wants to pay now, along comes someone else starting up needs the work and does it a bit cheaper again.

Then the circle starts again.

rosskesava

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2005, 04:50:28 pm »
Hi Roy

That about sums it up perfectly.

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2005, 05:54:35 pm »
Whatever job we are doing, bearing in mind there are 3 of us doing it, when pricing larger commercial jobs up we need to earn a minimum of £27.50 an hour but we aim for £35 an hour.

Is that each?

rosskesava

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2005, 05:57:31 pm »
That's between us.

I wish it was each. Cor - I'd do half days then.

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2005, 06:06:30 pm »
A bit low :( for 3 of you?

Commercial we do pays about £350 for 8 hours for 2 of us. is that good going then.

rosskesava

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2005, 09:30:08 pm »
Hi Stuart

Last Thursday and Friday we each made about £175 over the two days for about 15 hours work in total.

And I thought we were doing quite well with that.

£350 for 8 hours for 2 of you.

That is good. Do you use poles or traditional or both? Is all your commercial work in the same area and are they big jobs or small or both?

Cheers.

Ross

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2005, 09:34:13 pm »
Traditional method, and yes they are all in town, no car moving.

Sadly it's not like that every day!!

steve a

  • Posts: 466
Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2005, 05:06:26 pm »
When pricing a large job I usually price per window and by time. Then split the difference.
 ie. 100 windows 6 ft x 4ft, say 50p per window = £50  and 100  windows will take me approx  2.5 hrs on this job thats £37.50 at £15 per hour.
Now split the difference!  Bingo  £44.00
Thats ground floor work by the way. Its £1 per window on the ladder.

Duke

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2005, 05:10:32 pm »
we used to price our domestic at 50p a window...but now upped it to 75p ....gotta move with the times, and inflation, diesel, difficult access, etc....I wonder when the bubble will burst....

Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2005, 05:25:21 pm »
I charge differently on all my commercial and im not the cheapest.

I do many blocks of flats for £45.00 per hour and normally do in 5 hours thats £225.00 but i quote for 7 hours on each just in case obstacles crop up.So then its £315.00 for 5 hours.The customer is happy as they were quoted £800.00 and i dont have to hire platforms when using wfp.

thewindowcleaner1

  • Posts: 779
Re: COMMERCIAL AND PRICES
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2005, 06:45:19 pm »
This links with the thread I posted asking for tips about really dirty windows... Inspected the site yesterday they want outside done every three months and inside done every 12 months, I have no problem with this as although it involves about Hour travel each way I will build that into the costing.. At the moment I,m trying to get my head around the job, Two parts are four levels with the rest 3 and 2 levels this I would like to think could be done in one day with two people but intend costing for two days as every clean will be a chore because of the time between cleans, At the momment I looking at around £500 good price considering they do not need to bring in excess equipment,
My headache now is the inside, Big buildings full of corridoors and small offices windows being about 10ft tall and although I'd like to think they could be done in a couple of days in truth 4 to 5 days would be nearerfor two people and at the momment I playing with a figure of around £1,000 for the inside
As to being worried about them finding  cheaper if they want to go down that path let them, I learn,t early on that all you gain by trimming a price to the bone is missery you never want to go and when you do you hate the work, I became a window cleaner to get away from the drudge of a daily grind and have a lot less stress in my life so why bring these factors back into my life to save someone else money?
I know my worth and that I can and will do a good job provided the price is right.I don't class myself as gready but I do like the nice things in life and I'm willing to work to get them, I'm lucky I've got a large round that gives me a healthy income I only wish I'd masterd this stand early on in my working life
Alan
The secret is not doing as you like but liking what you do
www.thewindowcleaner.biz