[Oakley Windows]

My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.

Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.

Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.

This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.

For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.

Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.

What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.

Have you seen his truck?

But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?

Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.

Matt,

I think you'll find its the other way around.

Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.

We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box 

We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? 

True, BUT... if the apes decided to use an alternative (therefore behaviour that wasnt learned) they'd be doing it the way the giraffes do it, and that'd bugger them cos try as they might they'll never reach those leaves that far off the ground   

Have you ever heard the phrase 'monkey see, monkey do!'

[williamx]

Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?

The free clean can work, it depends how you market it.

It's a bit dumb to offer it upfront, but if you offer a free inside clean they will consider it.

"Ah but think of the time it takes your loosing money"!

No, not if you charge 5 times your normal rate to start with.

That £10 hose is priced up at £50, free inside clean included.

"But people round my way wont pay that"

Then go to an area where they will. Every big town or city has areas on the outskirts where all the better houses are, just aproch these people.

With that approach why don't we all just increase our prices by 5, because there is always some fool who is willing to pay it, instead of us offering a good servive at a reasonally price, we are insteads pirates trying to get as much as we can.

The words "GREEDY PIG" comes to mind or even "RIPE OFF MERCHANT"

Thank you for the compliment, just ask yourself, "how much was the last watch you brought?"

Maybe you paid £100 maybe £1000. So whats the difference, £900 worth of quality.

Is everyone who buys a Breitling being ripped off? Some of the worlds most astude businessmen wear them, have they suddenly become dumb?

The last watch I brought cost me under £200 (purchased online from the USA) yet in the UK the same watch cost over £350, I like most people go for price as well as quality, and if they can get the same quality for a cheaper price, well it a "no brainer"

I also buy all the parts for my carpet cleaning business from the usa because of the savings I make, same equipment half the price, just look at Ionics gutter cleaning system you can get the same equipment from the same company Ionics buy from and even with all the shipping costs and taxes you save half the price.

Another example I want a Harley Davidson survallince jacket the UK price £399 the Us price with shipping and tax £267 who do you think I should shop with?

Yes you can charge really high prices and you will always have someone fool enough to pay it, but these same people will also be targeted by some other cleaner who is going to offer the same service for a cheaper and more realistic price, can you guess what they will do?.

If all you are interested in doing is exploiting them for as much as you can get, why not skip half of the clean, still charge them the same, you now can do twice as many customers for double the money.

[David Slater]

My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.

Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.

Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.

This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.

For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.

Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.

What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.

Have you seen his truck?

But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?

Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.

Matt,

I think you'll find its the other way around.

Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.

We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box 

We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? 

True, BUT... if the apes decided to use an alternative (therefore behaviour that wasnt learned) they'd be doing it the way the giraffes do it, and that'd bugger them cos try as they might they'll never reach those leaves that far off the ground   

Have you ever heard the phrase 'monkey see, monkey do!'

Yes, I know the phrase 'monkey see, monkey do'....its normally meant as an idiot guide (just do what I do). It can work very well for repetetive tasks.

EXAMPLE -
1. this how we've always built our mud huts - just copy what I do.
2. second guy decides he can improve on mud huts.....now we live in brick and glass structures stretching many hundreds of feet into the sky.

To some degree even primates have 'developed' on existing ideas. There are certain troops of chimps who use tools to fish out termites. Theres other troops who use rocks to break nuts. This isnt 'monkey see, monkey do' This is down tgo one ape thinking about the problem and coming up with an even better solution.

....some member of the troops are incapable of learning the 'new and improved' methods.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EaEDeRJKN0s

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xRN-fHdGzUY

[williamx]

I could also get a jacket for a £1 ebay, but I want this jacket and the cheapest price is £267 if I could find one cheaper then that were I will be shopping.

With you theory why don't McDonalds charge more for their burgers, the reason is they charge what the market will pay for for they product they supply. if they took your marketing advive then every one will be eating at burger king in 2009, and McDonalds will go to the same place that woolworths have gone too.

[matt]

my take on marketing ( and i guess the idiots here will say " you dont understand OR your just a small time window cleaner who will allways be nothing, your not worth bothering about ), but hey ho, i will post anyway

marketting to the commercial clients, yes great, give me a few idea's, infact im sure 90 % of window cleaners would say that, thus i guess it would just cancel itself out as we would all be doing the same marketing and trying the same tricks to land that contract, as i can sqeeze a little more commercial stuff in the early mornings or late nights

marketing to the domestic market, does it work ? ??  as i have a wide range from a small 6 quid cottage to a big 220 quid house, they are mainly around the 10 - 12 qiud mark though ( the 3 / 4 bed homes ) , now how to i pick up more work, it mainly goes like this :

mrs smith asks friend / next door etc if they have a good window cleaner, they get told to phone my number, i answer the phone and it allways goes like this : hey Matt, ive been recommended to you by mrs johnston, the phonecall continues and i normally pick up the job with whatever price i give them, the reason, they know im trustworthy as mrs johnston told them ive done hers for 6 years

now ive used flyers in the past for the houese between the houses i do, it says something like this "

WINDOW CLEANER

we clean other properties in your area and we are currently taking on new clients, this will be intill our books are full, act now to ensure we have space

i then right on the rear, we clean number 10 , 14 and 16 ( lets say they are number 12 )

this gets them thinking on a few levels  :

Oh all around me are having clean windows, they might think im scruffy because i dont

i can trust him as he does the houses around me

they might ask nextdoor about me, who will of course say, yes he is a great guy


now this is marketing in my eyes, it works, i know as ive built up a very compact round of customers

[Oakley Windows]

I think you'll find its the other way around.

Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.

Peter you couldnt be MORE wrong!

Neanderthals didnt die out BECAUSE they couldnt adapt. They adapted into who we are today BECAUSE THEY COULD adapt!!

[Paul Coleman]

My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.

Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.

Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.

This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.

For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.

Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.

What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.

Have you seen his truck?

But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?

Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.

Matt,

I think you'll find its the other way around.

Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.

We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box 

We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? 

Well a monkey went into space before any humans did it   

[David Slater]

Peter you couldnt be MORE wrong!

Neanderthals didnt die out BECAUSE they couldnt adapt. They adapted into who we are today BECAUSE THEY COULD adapt!!

Are we talking about the theory that Homosapiens might have 'mated' with Neanderthals? and as a result we are now a cross between the two?

Homosapiens are NOT Neanderthals. Neanderthals either died out due to pressure from Homosapiens on land/resources or we assimilated them into our Homosapien genes (we mated with them and our dominant gene took over).

We didnt evolve from Neanderthals if thats what you're thinking.

Personally, I'm of the opionion they were forced out and died off....which isnt that different to business is it 

[williamx]

My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.

Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.

Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.

This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.

For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.

Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.

What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.

Have you seen his truck?

But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?

Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.

Matt,

I think you'll find its the other way around.

Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.

We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box 

We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? 

Well a monkey went into space before any humans did it   

And a dog called "Laiki" went first the cats have never forgiven him for that.

[David Slater]

 

Kevin,

This 'monkey thing' IS relevant to marketing.

There seems to be two very clear camps forming:

1. This is how its always been so keep doing that.
2. Is that really the best way of doing it? Can it be improved?

I think we all agree that the most effectrive form of advertsing is door knocking?.  But WHY is that.... and is there a better way?

At some time in the dim and distant past, the FIRST window cleaner went door knocking and found it was a brilliant form of advertising.....what did his peers say to him at the time?

Maybe sticking pound coins is even better than door knocking? Maybe its worse? Maaybe its a cultural thing?

How are we going to find out unless we try NEW THINGS?

[macmac]

There is a massive difference between selling a physical product & a local/regional non/low skilled service.

With the former, yes, with effective marketing you can make lots of money relying on 1 mug buying from every village in every county of the UK or indeed europe etc. Why? cos' that amounts to a lot of sales & you won't need repeat custom (as you're unlikely to get it anyway).

With the latter, yes you may get one or two of the said mugs but you certainly ain't gonna make a business grow from that approach. Not a business that relies on REPEAT custom, loyalty, value, reputation? A service you supply in the village/region of which you live, or near enough?

Yes, you do need to change, adapt, whatever. BUT you also need to be able to seperate marketing strategys. To me, nothing I've read is anything new, or indeed worth any measureable amount of consideration.

I would imagine for some it may be nice to wrap up common sense in a nicely worded package & post it to whom ever may feel they need it. Maybe that's the kick for the author, as like the above example- there's always a few mugs! :

For people like Ewan, unfortunately they will always have to sub-out for common sense.

Tony

 

[ftp]

Some guys on here have a fixed rate for example £1.00 per window but Mr Coach goes against this and is basically saying if you can find a wealthy area then charge more, maybe five times more (like Mr Smidt). Great but what happens when next door have another cleaner doing the same job to the same quality for a fith of the price? Oh, of course the cheap one will be dumped for the dear one. Unlikely i would think.
It's common sense, you push your prices to the point where you think you will lose work then back off a little. A guy earning £6.00 an hour won't pay a mere cleaner £50 for ten minutes work to clean dirt off his windows. Commercial work is where marketing skills belong in my opinion, not to get the highest price but to secure the job in the first place.

[Clive McDonald]

This thread isn't about marketing.

This is about someone coming onto the forum as a marketing coach and imparting his knowledge to us.

Mcdonalds sell a very good product. They all ways use top quality branded products. The thick shake is always how i wanted a milkshake to be.

They have had their problems. The main one being cannibilism, this is not that we are eating each other instead of their product, but some of the store locations in the states conflicted when they were too close.

Recently they have responded to subways attack by widening the menu and going healthier and attacks from starbucks by improving the decor.The entire orginisation is fabulous and you couldn't find a better model to learn from. In marketing terms they very often have tie ins with, and even free tickets for films.The toys given out with kids meals are also excellent.

If you would like to be a franchisee now matter how much money you have you will still be required to take eighteen months out of your life to attend mcdonalds university.

From almost every single angle they are outstanding and if you had a son or daughter they would learn a lot from working there. It's extremely hard for large orginisations to adapt to change, but they continually evolve and do it well.

[macmac]

I would imagine for some it may be nice to wrap up common sense in a nicely worded package & post it to whom ever may feel they need it. Maybe that's the kick for the author, as like the above example- there's always a few mugs! :

For people like Ewan, unfortunately they will always have to sub-out for common sense.

Tony

 

So The Window Cleaning Coach is  offering his dossier and book for free for a set time period?  If you dont like it it costs you nothing but the reasonable postage

So are the people on here that don't have a look at the free material mugs? or are the mugs the ones that do?

or do I need also to sub-out for common sense?

You tell me mate, but I'm supprised at you subbing out for such basic knowlage. I would look at yourself, how have you got to this stage? from what I've read of your posts you've done very well for yourself. wfp, gutter vac, good business, loads of work etc.etc. Who got you here? who's brain, drive, desire?  I would assume it was you & IMO you are the best person to continue the drive to where you require.

 there's no harm in looking at a free publication.

Tony

[David Slater]

This thread isn't about marketing.

This is about someone coming onto the forum as a marketing coach and imparting his knowledge to us.

Mcdonalds sell a very good product. They all ways use top quality branded products. The thick shake is always how i wanted a milkshake to be.

They have had their problems. The main one being cannibilism, this is not that we are eating each other instead of their product, but some of the store locations in the states conflicted when they were too close.

Recently they have responded to subways attack by widening the menu and going healthier and attacks from starbucks by improving the decor.The entire orginisation is fabulous and you couldn't find a better model to learn from. In marketing terms they very often have tie ins with, and even free tickets for films.The toys given out with kids meals are also excellent.

If you would like to be a franchisee now matter how much money you have you will still be required to take eighteen months out of your life to attend mcdonalds university.

From almost every single angle they are outstanding and if you had a son or daughter they would learn a lot from working there. It's extremely hard for large orginisations to adapt to change, but they continually evolve and do it well.

I agree, Maccy D's have a brilliant business model....But they're not perfect.

They have tried literally hundreds of ideas over the years. Some of them worked well (they kept them and intergrated into their menu/bunsiess) and others were terrible (and they were quickly dropped).

Without TRYING new ideas, they'd never find the good ones.

IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed.

[macmac]

IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed

Yes you can, if you're good enough. You need self belief & confidence, the same stuff that gets you to the stage where you start looking for business coaches.

Unless i'm way ahead of most? (doubtfull)

Tony

[NWH]

IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed

Yes you can, if you're good enough. You need self belief & confidence, the same stuff that gets you to the stage where you start looking for business coaches.

Unless i'm way ahead of most? (doubtfull)

Tony

Doubtfull.

[David Slater]

IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed

Yes you can, if you're good enough. You need self belief & confidence, the same stuff that gets you to the stage where you start looking for business coaches.

Unless i'm way ahead of most? (doubtfull)

Tony

Tony,

Were you the first person to buy and use WFP? Were you the first window cleaner to go door knocking? Were you the first window cleaner to put flyers out?

Lets presume you werent - so why did you change?

1. Because everyone else was doing it?
2. Because you TRIED it and found it better than the method you were currently using?

...so how do you know some other idea wont work or will work better?

You cant just dismiss something unless you've tried it. I'm not specifically talking about WCBC but more generally in terms of advertising/marketing.

Kevin seems to be thinking outside the box and that alone must be applauded.