[ftp]

Mcdonalds must be a classic example. Every adult knows the product is shall we say rather substandard? Yet they target the kids and the adults go along with it why?
Is it value for money? Is it because the kids love it or what?
I took my daughter into a Big Mac in Bath the other day because i knew it was cheap. The food was rubbish, the staff were scruffy the floor was sticky, it was horrible yet these places do really well - why?

[Oakley Windows]

personally i think the americans have the marketing thing right down, they do it well

ive been over to the US enough to see that americans lap up the flashy in your face marketing, nothing wrong it that

are we brits a little more reserved ? ? ? ?, are we too reserved to even try it ? ? ?

discuss

I believe there is a cultural difference with this stuff too Matt.  It makes it more important to sift through it and figure out what might and might not work in the UK.

But would you pay good money over (I think its meant to be £25.00 on a monthly basis) to have access to someones 'stuff' who you dont know from Adam, when in reality its all out there anyway. I dont actually believe it is actually out there, its actually right there where you are sat right now, between your ears.

I know I wont be spending money on it:

1. I have no need.

2. I find these posts odd, I wouldnt expect to be trusted if I suddenly started posting on a U.S forum; trying to raise my profile.

3. My strategy works and works well.

4. Too many people looking for the 'Holy Grail' in marketing, these threads re-appear time after time, we had one a fortnight ago where a troll was mostly involved; apparently searching for the answer.

5. No offense, but the word 'coach' IMO might be appropriate over there, but a coach to me is someone who has history, a proven track-record, has been where the new-comers are and is passing on his knowledge, experience to those who have a need. Next we'll be haveing cheer-leaders  


As I said before, I dont know this guy from Adam, I'd be an idiot to believe that there is an 'answer' to everyones marketing issues; as yet undiscovered this side of the pond, but is common knowledge on the other side, and we're suddenly privvy to that 'holy grail' knowledge cos the guy with it suddenly appears on an internet chat forum.

I know Im a sceptic by nature, perhaps Im one of the apes. I thought the ape thing is actually a trust thing to be honest; they trust the familiarity and their 'cousins'. Nought wrong with that.

No offense meant.

[Oakley Windows]

Oh yeah! and those web-sites where someone puts up a cheesy picture of themselves, trying to reel in your trust; yuk 

[Paul Coleman]

personally i think the americans have the marketing thing right down, they do it well

ive been over to the US enough to see that americans lap up the flashy in your face marketing, nothing wrong it that

are we brits a little more reserved ? ? ? ?, are we too reserved to even try it ? ? ?

discuss

I believe there is a cultural difference with this stuff too Matt.  It makes it more important to sift through it and figure out what might and might not work in the UK.

But would you pay good money over (I think its meant to be £25.00 on a monthly basis) to have access to someones 'stuff' who you dont know from Adam, when in reality its all out there anyway. I dont actually believe it is actually out there, its actually right there where you are sat right now, between your ears.

I know I wont be spending money on it:

1. I have no need.

2. I find these posts odd, I wouldnt expect to be trusted if I suddenly started posting on a U.S forum; trying to raise my profile.

3. My strategy works and works well.

4. Too many people looking for the 'Holy Grail' in marketing, these threads re-appear time after time, we had one a fortnight ago where a troll was mostly involved; apparently searching for the answer.

5. No offense, but the word 'coach' IMO might be appropriate over there, but a coach to me is someone who has history, a proven track-record, has been where the new-comers are and is passing on his knowledge, experience to those who have a need. Next we'll be haveing cheer-leaders  


As I said before, I dont know this guy from Adam, I'd be an idiot to believe that there is an 'answer' to everyones marketing issues; as yet undiscovered this side of the pond, but is common knowledge on the other side, and we're suddenly privvy to that 'holy grail' knowledge cos the guy with it suddenly appears on an internet chat forum.

I know Im a sceptic by nature, perhaps Im one of the apes. I thought the ape thing is actually a trust thing to be honest; they trust the familiarity and their 'cousins'. Nought wrong with that.

No offense meant.

£25 a month?  No I won't be paying that.  I thought it was a one off book sale.  I believe I already know enough to grow a large business.  There may come a day when I take that route.  At the moment, I prefer to take a lower stress route.  Although the subject interests me, I'm not the ideal target for this.
A one off book I might have gone for but not a £25 a month commitment - especially as I'm currently living very frugally to sort out my finances.
However, as I said, there is usually something to learn from each person.  The coin idea sounded interesting and different.  I might try that one day with 100 x 20p pieces - though I suspect that Brit culture would view such a thing differently.

[craig b]

i have tried the free clean flyer...and it does work...
free clean with 4 weekly service.. and A bit of good luck.. i think it was the difference in someone calling and not.. try it put a 1000 flyers with free clean on it if you get a job..when you speak to  the customer offer them another free clean if they  introduce a friend..

TRY IT.....

[macmac]

All I can assume from this thread is that coach's target audience are those with very little common sense, Taking advantage of it?

SPIN - that's what it's called over here.

Tony

[Clive McDonald]

craig,
i expect it does work, so does door knocking, so do web sites and yellow pages.

Marketing, or being consiously aware of what you are doing also works, but again your ideas change over time.Thats why many retailers are having to re focus in the current climate.

One decade green shield stamps make people millionaires, another time a christmass hamper company might work.As consumers wise up on the obvious they get taken on the less so.

How many people responded to the crunch by buying and locking in to a fixed rate mortgage? Or by taking up the lovely fixed price off the gas board?

My answer to all this is quality cost and volume, and as part of that I assess all approaches. If you really want to learn about this stuff from a pro tap in chris cardel

[craig b]

discount ...people rubbish different ideas before trying.
coach thing doesnt interest me one bit .but i like free info ..or cheap books..or free..books jim mowan for one i think this is the way forward for window cleaning..

[craig b]

discount do you fancy being a mentor we could run different ideas by each other iam across the water from yourself...iam going in total different direction...this year

[williamx]

Guess I ticked you off a bit!

Not in the least

Reason number one why I would rather teach than run my window cleaning business for the next 10 years: I hate winter, and I'd like to be able to live somewhere tropical while still working. Seemed like a nice opportunity, since no one seems to have a clear hold on this window cleaning marketing game, and almost no one is doing things right. And before you take issue with this last statement, I do not presumptuously have the right to determine right from wrong, when it comes to marketing, history and testing establish that.

We all don't like the cold dark months, but we are all full-time proffesional window cleaners, and because of this we carry on, the same applys to any customer who dosen't want their windows cleaned in the winter, they are taken off my books and they can find a part timer if they can, I still have bills to pay for.

Like you, I like the hot climate, thats why I go to Africa a lot and my goal is in 10 years, I sell up and move there.

Imo there are no great marketing skills that need to be paid for, is mainly common sense approach to selling your company and yourself to as many people as possible.

The reason that the likes of Microsoft-McDonalds-Apple-Virgin-Ford and all the rest of the better known names in commerce that we know of is no big secret, all of them over the years have done "name marketing" they have spent Trillions and Trillions on advertisting if I do the same, then I would be in the same league as them.

The best way all of us have used to generate new customers has been the direct approach, by door to door canvassing, this provides more customers than any other forms of marketing that there is.  But this method can be time consuming or costly (employing someone to do it for you) so we all try out different methods adverts -leaflets -paid for listings on the web and many other methods that cost a great deal, all of these methods have varring results, we would all like the "magic leaflet" that generates more customers than we can cope with, but it does not excist.

Also using marketing plans from elsewhere in the world will not always work over here, for example you have produced an very proffessional sounding recorded message that a protential customer will hear if they phone you. 

Telephone messaging services might be more common and exceptable over in Canada and the USA but in the UK we all hate them, we would rather talk to a "live" person rather than kept on pressing this number and then that number before ending leaving a voice message that we hope someone will listen too.  I do have a answering machine but I never use it, all I do is transfer all calls to my mobile whenever I am not by the landline, that way I never ever lose that call, whereas with a messaging service, they might not leave a message but phone the next number on the list.

You also said that you only only sell your monthly packs to window cleaners because you are one.

Well you are not a window cleaner, you are a part time window cleaner and a part time marketing salesman, why not take this piece of free marketing advice and change the contain of your products a little and target other trades and industries, that way you will be able to spend more vacation time in hotter climates of the world.

[David Slater]

Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?

So instead of offering the the FREE CLEAN at the start of the year...why not offer it at the END of the year? Call it a 'loyalty bonus' or something. You could still put "FREE CLEAN" on your leaflets.

McDonalds do this with their coffee - buy 6 cups of coffee and the next one is free. But they state FREE COFFEE on their cups  

I've noticed a bit of a theme with this post - Kevin has posted up some of his thoughts and ideas and theres been plenty of reasons given for why they wont work....but nobody has posted up an idea/strategy to take its place.

I used to work for a firm who had a motto - Dont shoot it down until you have something better to replace it with.
That made lots of guys sit up and take note - it wasnt good enough to say 'it wont work' they had to sit down and not only give the reasons why it wouldnt work, but also find a better way of doing it.

Personally, I think £25.00 a month (£300 a year) is a bit steep, but I like Kevins approach. He's thinking, trying and adapting. If we dont like his ideas then we should at least do him the courtesy of giving him a solid reason and an advertising approach that works even better in its place.  

[craig b]

whys it dumb if its worded right....if coach persons flyer worked so well why didnt he use the £1000 something and put it back in a thousand flyers and make£100000.something.
and then tell us about it then we might be impressed..

[williamx]

Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?

The free clean can work, it depends how you market it.

It's a bit dumb to offer it upfront, but if you offer a free inside clean they will consider it.

"Ah but think of the time it takes your loosing money"!

No, not if you charge 5 times your normal rate to start with.

That £10 hose is priced up at £50, free inside clean included.

"But people round my way wont pay that"

Then go to an area where they will. Every big town or city has areas on the outskirts where all the better houses are, just aproch these people.

With that approach why don't we all just increase our prices by 5, because there is always some fool who is willing to pay it, instead of us offering a good servive at a reasonally price, we are insteads pirates trying to get as much as we can.

The words "GREEDY PIG" comes to mind or even "RIPE OFF MERCHANT"

[macmac]

The apes are using behaviour they have learned. That's okay i would be no different.Your point being?

My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.

Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.

Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.

This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.

For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.

Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.

What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.

Have you seen his truck?

The point is it worked for HIM, his degree of sucsess is only proven for HIM in his patch & in his circumstances. It will NOT work for everyone. There are so many variables in this job that just about every w/c needs a differing approach. Each w/c must use HIS OWN noggin & not rely on someone who's system worked for him at the other side of the world! Otherwise we'd all be reading Alan Sugar's book & we'd all be millionaires! right? If i adopt the same business strategy as Sir Alan I am guaranteed to be as sucsesful?
In our profession the biggest chunk of what we require is common sense applied to all the variables that make up our individual circumstances, the rest certainly isn't worth paying for! e.g. IMO 99% of what we need comes from within, you should only be looking to outsource 1%
I am applying this to 99% of window cleaners but not the 1% who are national companys etc.

Tony

[bluez]

Very little in marketing is new but actually implementing those marketing plans that we all have but havn't actioned yet is what makes the difference imo, if Kevin is a good motivator and his package encourages some then why not.

[macmac]

Peter mallory smith

Just incase you are unaware-

We are selling an unskilled service to the general public of the UK, most of which at the mo' are skint. It is called window cleaning, something that most home owners could actualy do themselves. Generaly, the service is offered from 10 pounds sterling upwards & there are still plenty who do it for less!

We, on this forum do not sell high quality watches of 1k etc.etc.etc.

Hope this helps

Tony

[Oakley Windows]

My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.

Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.

Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.

This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.

For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.

Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.

What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.

Have you seen his truck?

But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?

Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.

[David Slater]

My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.

Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.

Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.

This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.

For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.

Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.

What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.

Have you seen his truck?

But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?

Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.

Matt,

I think you'll find its the other way around.

Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.

We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box 

We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? 

[matt]

Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?

The free clean can work, it depends how you market it.

It's a bit dumb to offer it upfront, but if you offer a free inside clean they will consider it.

"Ah but think of the time it takes your loosing money"!

No, not if you charge 5 times your normal rate to start with.

That £10 hose is priced up at £50, free inside clean included.

"But people round my way wont pay that"

Then go to an area where they will. Every big town or city has areas on the outskirts where all the better houses are, just aproch these people.

50 quid for a 10 quid clean

add the 150 % increase for the insides ( yes thats what i charge ) and you have 25 quid

now even if we say 25 quid a clean with the first clean you get a free insides clean

how many people do you know who will take that offer, 25 quid for a 10 quid house ? ? ? ? ? not many, they would just ask next door " hey mr jones, have you got a WC'er, how much do they charge ", they will know the rate is 10 quid, am i giving the customer too much credit here ?  ?? ?

[Oakley Windows]

If you have no interest in growth, I have nothing to offer you.

As he says if you don't want to grow your business don't listen or spend your physically hard  earned £££'s. Just keep on cleaning them windows!!! 

My business will grow with or without thanks Kev. :

Its obvious that without some form of marketing your business will not grow. What do you say when someone asks you to clean their windows? your reply markets your company usually unless you don't want the work.

We all know how to market to an extent, or otherwise our businesses would have already failed. 2009 will bring many new challenges to many established companies - over the last 10 years its all been fair weather sailing but things are about to change.

In the last recession many companies failed - and it will happen again. There will be many new start ups competing for your piece of the pie. They will have less kit, lower overheads and will be cheaper.

Customers do not care how  their windows are cleaned or by who (wfp or trad, you or your staff its irrelevant as long as they are clean)

If we want to survive the coming storm we will all need to market our businesses to make up for the inevitable customer losses and the changing environment that we will all face.

If you are new to marketing or know nothing about marketing or just wish to improve you knowledge then now is the time to to get stuck in.

Im not suggesting that the window cleaning coach is the only way to go - but its one avenue that may be worth exploring.

My original post said:

What do you guys think of this?

windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach

I bought his book and thought it was ok - based of guerilla marketing / Piranha marketing but a bit more focused to the window cleaning market. He now is selling a monthly marketing tutorial on subscription but its a bit pricey in my opinion when marketing books are so cheap in the local book store or on Amazon.

However I would be interested in any opinions especially from anyone who has read his book and maybe has even subscribed.

I'm not interested in the opinions of those that choose not to market their companies

I am interested only in those that market their companies in one way or another - especially those that have first hand experience of the Window Cleaning Coach

You need to re-read the posts here Kevin, cos you were initially talking about growth, you now appear to have morphed the subject in hand to marketing.

I will expand, as I wish, as I said before, I will also market my business and services as I wish, although you appear to be regarding the fact that if it isnt done the way you think it should be done then it isnt being done at all. Wrong!