[FRESHER]

Old story

[Tosh]

Scott,

It sounds like you've had a rough time of it, but the best advice I can offer is to find a local van-mounted WFP user and offer your services to him for a week; for free; the experience you'll gain will be invaluable.

If you can find one willing to help you that is.

[DASERVICES]

Hi Scott,

Firstly welcome. To work as a window cleaner in Scotland you'll need to get yourself licensed if you were not aware of it. www.slwcn.org



In your situation where cash may be a constraint I would say go the DIY route then when you have funds available the fork out for a fixed system. In Scotland you are fortunate to live in soft water area in most areas so therefore you will only need a di vessel filled with resin. This you fill your tank up with then feed your hose and poles via the pump and varistream.

However I am hearing people are experiencing problems with the new digital varistream but there are alternatives. My advise find someone in your area who works with wfp and then find out what the area is like regarding work. Some areas are saturated with window cleaners some areas there are shortages.

Doug

[gary evans]

Scott

Tahts good advice from tosh go look & see if it is what u want for definate. There may not be the work available at this moment in time. I am looking for work to save my business at minute  i have 3 vehicles & not enough work. I will be chasing work from jan onwards.

Reference equipment 5k would set u up properly, but, is that  a lot at the moment to invest, you need to know what return you need per week & then all running costs to give you a decent wage.

I have a 54 scudo with twin system in & 3 poles for £4k + vat, that is a good system for anybody & there are 3 or 4 other systems on here for similar, or go the DIY route & source the van yourself. If you buy i would use the system & poles to get used to them, also contact some of the companies for demo,s aswell.

Just take your time & look proerly into everything, buy, a van from near to you so if any probs you can go back to the person for help & advice.

Gary

[Oakley Windows]

Well, Scott, thanks for imparting your story.

Theres no doubt you could have had an easier and simpler entrance into the cleaning business. Fair play to you for continuing to pursue it.

All I can say is this is generally the place to come to learn most aspects of what you need to learn. You will learn to sort the chaff from the wheat on here. But if you have any issues you need clarifying, questions answered or crap to get off your chest; youll no doubt be able to here.

All the best for the future and a Happy Xmas.

Matt

[AJ]

don't know where you are in scotland.
try
peter fogwill, he is in scotland and very helpful www.window-tools.com

[windowswashed]

Hi,
your hard luck story tugged my heart strings. Good luck to you when you start up. Read as much info as possible on here and decide for yourself what is good and what is bad advice. Offer your help to a couple wfp window cleaners to gain some experience.
Decide carefully what is the most important things you need to buy first and gradually improve on this as time and money allows you to persue your dream of being self employed.
Remember failure can't live with persistency.

[RSWindows]

Wher abouts in Scotland are you?

[Clive McDonald]

Phone cleantech, mike will tell you what you need.

[Niall McAllister]

hi wintec do a diy starter kit that I've been looking at, and it looks to tick all the boxes for under £1000

[FRESHER]

Thanks Everyone for the advice so far! I'll look into all your replys in detail and visit the sights you recommend.

Im based Just North of Aberdeen, im not sure if the area is saturated or not, there are a number of companies in the area, but ive never had anyone offering to clean my windows and no one i know has been asked so i figure that this could  be due to the fact the WC in the area dont need to canvas the work comes to them, i should be able to pick up a number of jobs from knocking doors, then hopefully they will come knocking on my door, im not taking anything for granted that it will be that easy.

My cousin who lives in Perth,  has a friend who is a traditional window cleaner, and he is constantly turning away work.  My cousin is going to start working for him to learn traditional cleaning and from there start to build his own round.  He will use the setup that we buy and i will learn from him.  The aim is to create a company and work together to build it up and once we have mastered window cleaning, offer other services. such as carpet cleaning.

Thanks again everyone, i really apreciate it!!

I hope to get to know you all better in the future.

Take Care

merry christmas!

[Dean Taberner]

www.drivewaydoctor.info/

 

[Ian Lancaster]

www.drivewaydoctor.info/

 

These people seem to be still trading

I've filled out their on-line application for further info - if I get a reply I'll post it on here - there may be some hope of getting your money back if they're just trying to con people out of the franchise fee.

[Londoner]

I was talking to a franchisee for a large oven cleaning franchise who as working at the same house as me in the week before Christmas.

He said most of the oven cleaners that had signed up for the scheme he was on had folded in less than a year because they just couldn't generate enough business. Some of them weren't getting a phone call a week.

He said he was doing OK because he was working the London suburbs but its been a real struggle. He then told me he was based in Ealing. (thats about an hours drive away first thing in the morning)so he was probably off his alloted area.

Then he wanted me to show him how my WFP setup worked and asked me about how much I charge etc.

I hate franchises, I always have since I worked for Kodak and saw some of the sharks that were selling franchises in the photographic industry.

I know there are people on here who franchise their business and I don't want to run them down in any way at all. Let me be clear about that.

However, there are franchises and there are franchises. Paying somebody £20K upfront, somebody you hardly know requires a big leap of faith.

[David Slater]

I was talking to a franchisee for a large oven cleaning franchise who as working at the same house as me in the week before Christmas.

He said most of the oven cleaners that had signed up for the scheme he was on had folded in less than a year because they just couldn't generate enough business. Some of them weren't getting a phone call a week.

He said he was doing OK because he was working the London suburbs but its been a real struggle. He then told me he was based in Ealing. (thats about an hours drive away first thing in the morning)so he was probably off his alloted area.

Then he wanted me to show him how my WFP setup worked and asked me about how much I charge etc.

I hate franchises, I always have since I worked for Kodak and saw some of the sharks that were selling franchises in the photographic industry.

I know there are people on here who franchise their business and I don't want to run them down in any way at all. Let me be clear about that.

However, there are franchises and there are franchises. Paying somebody £20K upfront, somebody you hardly know requires a big leap of faith.

I've been to several franchise seminars and must admit on the whole, I was very dissapointed with what was on offer for the money.

Most seem to be offering a 'how to' guide to get involved with that particular industry and nothing else. In the days before the internet, this knowledge alone was probably worth something. But these days you could easily research most of these models and ideas on the internet for free (just like we're doing on CIU).

A lot of guys (on the seminars I attended) seemed to have the wrong end of the stick - They thought by parting with 20k they were buying a job and NOT buying knowledge that would allow them to own and operate their own business.

Large established franchises such as McDonalds or DHL are selling something more than knowledge. They are selling their BRAND which is indeed worth a considerable sum of money and they know it!....thats why they want several hundred thousand pounds for their NAME.

I doubt you could say the same for most other franchises out there today.

Why on earth would you want to part with money for someone to tell you how to clean an oven???

[Ian Lancaster]

They thought by parting with 20k they were buying a job and NOT buying knowledge that would allow them to own and operate their own business.
Why on earth would you want to part with money for someone to tell you how to clean an oven???

You've answered your own question there, David.  You're not parting with money to be told how to do the job (cleaning an oven) although the package should contain comprehensive training to do just that.  What you are buying is supposed to be the franchisors tried and tested business methods which, if properly followed, should guarantee success.  Some franchisors will also guarantee initial income as they are so sure of the quality of their system.

The value of the franchise is in the quality of the business know-how provided, especially the marketing.  If an oven cleaner is only getting "one call a week" then either he is not following the franchisors marketing plan, or the plan is no good.

The first rule when investigating any franchise is to talk to existing franchisees, and that means choosing for yourself which ones to talk to.  If the franchisor gives a list of 'approved' franchisees, run away.  You should get a full list of every franchisee in the organisation, and make your own choice.

There will inevitably be those who do not, or cannot, implement the training and advice they are given, but if the system is good, there will be very few of these.

[David Slater]

They thought by parting with 20k they were buying a job and NOT buying knowledge that would allow them to own and operate their own business.
Why on earth would you want to part with money for someone to tell you how to clean an oven???

You've answered your own question there, David.  You're not parting with money to be told how to do the job (cleaning an oven) although the package should contain comprehensive training to do just that.  What you are buying is supposed to be the franchisors tried and tested business methods which, if properly followed, should guarantee success.  Some franchisors will also guarantee initial income as they are so sure of the quality of their system.

The value of the franchise is in the quality of the business know-how provided, especially the marketing.  If an oven cleaner is only getting "one call a week" then either he is not following the franchisors marketing plan, or the plan is no good.

The first rule when investigating any franchise is to talk to existing franchisees, and that means choosing for yourself which ones to talk to.  If the franchisor gives a list of 'approved' franchisees, run away.  You should get a full list of every franchisee in the organisation, and make your own choice.

There will inevitably be those who do not, or cannot, implement the training and advice they are given, but if the system is good, there will be very few of these.

I agree to a degree Ian,

These are only my thoughts and personal experiences - most of these guys shouldn't be in business full stop. They expect the franchisor to provide them with work. The franchisors don't correct this misconception.

For 20k I could arrange my own marketing campaign for oven cleaning, set up a website, buy an accounts software programme, buy equipment, buy a vehicle, have unrestricted access to ALL areas....and try and fail until I find what works best in my area.

The idea of franchising has been numptyised in my opinion.
It used to mean buying into an established BRAND which was recognised and held in high regard (such as McDonalds or DHL). These days, it seems to be a bunch of chancers preying on people who have no idea what they're getting for their money. They honestly feel by parting with 20k they can sit back and the money will just roll in from the brand name.......most of these firms DONT have any brand apart from within the franchising industry. They spend more money advertising franchises than advertising their services to the paying customer....that alone should start the alarm bells ringing.

I can think of half a dozen of these firms off the top off my head. I wont mention them as the rest of the franchise fee seems to go towards shutting down websites which dare to question their model.

I would ask one question - if its so good an opportunty, why are they still selling franchises? Wouldnt they have all been sold by now?

 

[Feen]

Doug you said

"Firstly welcome. To work as a window cleaner in Scotland you'll need to get yourself licensed if you were not aware of it. www.slwcn.org"
From that website I quote: "Under the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 if a Council chooses to licence window cleaners those carrying on the trade of, or being employed as window cleaner are required to be licensed. Under Section 7 (1) of the 1982 Act it is an offence to carry on the trade of, or be employed as a window cleaner without a licence." I would have thought that the word "if" is important here. Do all Councils choose to do this? If not, I'd say your info is misleading.

[DASERVICES]

Hi Feen,

The statement "if" is dependant on the Council if they want to introduce that law. They are not compelled to license window cleaners. However 90% of Councils feel fit to license window cleaners so there is a growing call that it should be 100%.

Scottish Borders are one of the Councils that have not introduced it. What you will find that the first request to introduce the license in the area is intiated by the local Police force.

Hope this clarifies your question.

Cheers

Doug

[zeusweiler]

Hi scott we are based in aberdeen and surrounding areas, the area is saturated at the moment with national facillity and large window cleaning companies both trad and wfp.with alot of sole traders also. not to put you off but i am quite experienced and have alot of connections with cleaning companies in the area but still choose to work for someone else as aberdeen is so competative. we have just put our third ionic thermopure van on the road and the fourth thermo van being in the new year and were not the top of the food chain in the area. gives you an idea of the scale of wc comanies in the area most do a mix of residential and commercial. there prob is the odd residential area that doesnt have a cleaner so might be worth a go.

We are a wc company but also do carpet cleaning etc.

anyway good luck with it and hope all goes well just wanted to let you know a bit about the area before you spend any more money. Doug (da services) is defo the man you want for all things resin.

to start with you will get away with a basic resin system in the area. tap tds varies between 50-65 tds locally so is quite cost effective with resin. my boss is also a supplier of poles systems etc but you might want to diy for first.