[East coast window cleaning Services]

Some customers moan about all the water left by the WFP method and to have Ionic's Reach & Wash logo on your van with what looks like a pole flooding below doesn't make good common sense IMO. Their logo portrays a poor visual image of WFP IMO.

I'm not trying to put Ionics down in any way as I have their gutterkeeper, two of their pole racks, their hosereel (which I thoroughly recommend although pricey) and a couple of their ergolite poles. I must admit their ergolite poles were the most rigid and lightest when they first starting selling them in the UK until Gardinerpolesystems came along and gave them some healthy competition.

One word in there sums them up nicely

PRICEY

[NWH]

No it`s not Banatynes,he did have a 1000ltr Thermopure in a Movano about a 54 reg i think he only lives 5 mins from me,he was 1 of the ones that went into WC with no experience at all of the job and was sold it on the course.His prices were so cheap you could never compete with him,when he first started he had the ionic leaflets they give you with your details printed on them for advertising and he dropped most of the area with little joy i`m told but i`m not surprised with his attitude.I reckon he got some sort of big payout from somewhere cos he didin`t seem bothered about not having much work up until he approached me,he uses 40ft + fiberglass poles and spends all his time looking at people walking past him if i see him now i just drive on can`t be doing with him.

[jaykie]

Yer he still got the movano so probs still got the ionics system, sorry to hijack thread but the hot system your mate done is he going to do anymore if so could you email me a price.

Cheers

Chris

[AuRavelling79]

Malc.  As there are a lot of people on here who are of a certain persuasion, I was wondering if someone might want to trademark "Preach & Wash".
Not having a pop at anyone.  Just a little humour. 

Shiner, would "Preach & Wash-tower" bring a lawsuit from the USA?

 

[Oakley Windows]

Malc.  As there are a lot of people on here who are of a certain persuasion, I was wondering if someone might want to trademark "Preach & Wash".
Not having a pop at anyone.  Just a little humour. 

Shiner, would "Preach & Wash-tower" bring a lawsuit from the USA?

 

Very good   

www.wash-tower.org

[Nathanael Jones]

LMAO@ Matt!

Good one!

[NWH]

Yer he still got the movano so probs still got the ionics system, sorry to hijack thread but the hot system your mate done is he going to do anymore if so could you email me a price.

Cheers

Chris

If you want an L5 heater with gas filler look on page2 of the threads under L5 heater,you can buy mine if you want.I got mine from Varitech and am well pleased with it,i paid just shy of 3k with fitting but a firm in Bexhill fitted it.

[Paul Golding]

So many people hate Ionics . . and it's all coming out in this topic !!!

I'll be honest, I've been put off totally by their "Better than everyone else" attitude. Also, the bad reports from people that have their system.

The one thing that totally put me off is that they forced Gardiner's poles to take off the info of their poles from their site.

Straight away this got my back up. If their poles are that good then surely they would be happy to have their poles compared to others.

In all honesty, I have borrowed an ergolite and I wasn't that impressed.

Last year I talked to Alex at Gardiners poles and he told me good and bad points about all different makes of poles. The choice was then left up to me. At no point did I sense a "My poles are the best, all the rest are rubbish" attitude.

Still, I'm sure that Ionics will continue to get sales from the "Just starting up but don't really know what it SHOULD cost" group out there.

Meanwhile, others with sense will do their research and find a better deal with the likes of Gardiners poles or pure freedom, etc.

[Paul Coleman]

Malc.  As there are a lot of people on here who are of a certain persuasion, I was wondering if someone might want to trademark "Preach & Wash".
Not having a pop at anyone.  Just a little humour. 

Shiner, would "Preach & Wash-tower" bring a lawsuit from the USA?

 

Well you just never know Malc      .

[Oakley Windows]

I'll be honest, I've been put off totally by their "Better than everyone else" attitude. Also, the bad reports from people that have their system.

The one thing that totally put me off is that they forced Gardiner's poles to take off the info of their poles from their site.

Last year I talked to Alex at Gardiners poles and he told me good and bad points about all different makes of poles. The choice was then left up to me. At no point did I sense a "My poles are the best, all the rest are rubbish" attitude.

Self explanatory isnt it

[Paul Coleman]

So many people hate Ionics . . and it's all coming out in this topic !!!

I'll be honest, I've been put off totally by their "Better than everyone else" attitude. Also, the bad reports from people that have their system.

The one thing that totally put me off is that they forced Gardiner's poles to take off the info of their poles from their site.

Straight away this got my back up. If their poles are that good then surely they would be happy to have their poles compared to others.

In all honesty, I have borrowed an ergolite and I wasn't that impressed.

Last year I talked to Alex at Gardiners poles and he told me good and bad points about all different makes of poles. The choice was then left up to me. At no point did I sense a "My poles are the best, all the rest are rubbish" attitude.

Still, I'm sure that Ionics will continue to get sales from the "Just starting up but don't really know what it SHOULD cost" group out there.

Meanwhile, others with sense will do their research and find a better deal with the likes of Gardiners poles or pure freedom, etc.

I've never had a problem with Ionics myself.  So long as people remember that they are another supply company selling their wares who are good at marketing then there's no problem IMO.   I've had three of their poles at various times and the poles were OK.  I've never had anything else from them though.
Maybe it would be better to focus on their marketing, look at how they do it, and try to transfer those skills into our own businesses.  As for how they market, take what you want from it and leave the rest behind.
I can't say I'm too enamoured by what I perceive as the bullying of the small guy but I do understand their thinking even though I find it questionable.

[David Slater]

So many people hate Ionics . . and it's all coming out in this topic !!!

I'll be honest, I've been put off totally by their "Better than everyone else" attitude. Also, the bad reports from people that have their system.

The one thing that totally put me off is that they forced Gardiner's poles to take off the info of their poles from their site.

Straight away this got my back up. If their poles are that good then surely they would be happy to have their poles compared to others.

In all honesty, I have borrowed an ergolite and I wasn't that impressed.

Last year I talked to Alex at Gardiners poles and he told me good and bad points about all different makes of poles. The choice was then left up to me. At no point did I sense a "My poles are the best, all the rest are rubbish" attitude.

Still, I'm sure that Ionics will continue to get sales from the "Just starting up but don't really know what it SHOULD cost" group out there.

Meanwhile, others with sense will do their research and find a better deal with the likes of Gardiners poles or pure freedom, etc.

Now thats very interesting Paul,

I seem to remember one of Ionics magazines earlier this year (or was it BWCA?...lol) comparing poles 'like for like' and side by side. Unless Alex artificially jigged the results (which I doubt very much) then I dont see a problem with comparing equipment from other manufacturers...and neither does Ionics apparently!!

What possible grounds could they give for asking their poles not to be compared in a straight 'like for like' test?

I tend to agree with Inoics on their 'R&W' and logo issues. They've spent a lot of money developing and fine tuning their name and logos and it hardly seems fair that somebody can just look at it and say - thats nice, I'm having that.

I'm sure OCS, Mitie, Intial Services would have issues if you "copied" their designs...as would McDonalds, Bosch or any other firm. I'm sure you wouldnt be too happy if you saw a beer money boy walking round town in a uniform which appeared to be a direct copy of yours!!

Does R&W or the BT pan pipes man   actually mean anything to a customer? - My thought is no, it doesnt. It MEANS something within our industry to other window cleaners and other suppliers but thats about it.

I challenge anybody to show me customers who actually understand and recognise Ionics logos/words.

If you do have customers who understand the Ionnics logos -
1. How do they know of Ionics?
2. Why do they think it is better than Brodex, Gardiners, Pure Freedom etc..?
3. What BENEFITS do they percieve from their window cleaner using Ionics over other WFP units?
4. Can they recognise the brand?
5. What does the brand MEAN to them?
6. What PREMIUM are they willing to pay to have an Ionics window cleaner as apposed to another system user?
7 etc etc etc...

If you asked these questions about McDonalds or Bosch everyone would know the 'brand names' and would most likely know the products and give you a fairly decent answer to each question.
 
Seeing as Ionics only advertise to the trade how could customers possibly be aware of their products? So how could it possibly generate you work?

Yep, they've got nice sign-writing and it looks very slick but that has nothing to do with the actual 'brand name' of Ionics - its their designs that appeal, not THEIR NAME.

I say leave Ionics with their logos and trademark words. Anyone who honestly thinks using their branding gets extra work is seriously deluded.
Would a Joiner get more work if he was using a £700 DeWalt drill over a £20 B&Q drill?....or is it more likely he gets work because he does a good job No matter which drill he uses?

Why would you want to promote somebody elses business on your vehicle anyway?

If you've paid for an Ionics system, then part of that deal also gets you a licence to use the logos, artwork and trademarks which must make life very easy for a lot of guys. Maybe because they dont know how to go about designing their own logos/artwork or maybe its easier (if a little expensive) to have it all done by one company?

You need to create your own uniform, paperwork, website, invoices, letterheads, business cards, leaflets, flyers...etc etc So why should the vehicle livery be any different?

[groundhog]

My diy system comprising of a second hand tank £60, pump + varistream £200 + Harris pole £15, is a reach and wash system because thats what it does! it reaches and it washes!! And it does it better than any ridiculously expensive ionics system 

[DASERVICES]

The one thing that totally put me off is that they forced Gardiner's poles to take off the info of their poles from their site.

Straight away this got my back up. If their poles are that good then surely they would be happy to have their poles compared to others.

If that is true than Ionics are way out of order, talk about wanting to be greedy in this world.

In my honest opnion Craig is a very good sales man but sometimes he goes way over the top. As a lot of you know a certain new window cleaning association was being formed then he goes and patient their name. That really showed his true colours but this Gardiners thing has gone way too far.

When I first saw the Ionics logo I was not impressed with it at all as they would do nothing in attracting customers for me. Ionics are well known for their pricy systems. So for me their logo stands for  "NICK ME"

I apologise to those who have had it done but it stands out a mile for the crook who knows it is an expensive system.

[matt]

The one thing that totally put me off is that they forced Gardiner's poles to take off the info of their poles from their site.

Straight away this got my back up. If their poles are that good then surely they would be happy to have their poles compared to others.

If that is true than Ionics are way out of order, talk about wanting to be greedy in this world.

In my honest opnion Craig is a very good sales man but sometimes he goes way over the top. As a lot of you know a certain new window cleaning association was being formed then he goes and patient their name. That really showed his true colours but this Gardiners thing has gone way too far.

just another thinly disguised attempt to be a spokesperson for ALL window cleaners, but in reality just another reason to be able to control the industry that we work in 

[Elginn]

They have done them selfs more harm than good looking at this topic,   let me give there so called good salesman a tip?

If you do a good Job your customers will tell just a few people, If You do a bad Job then your customers will tell everyone, take a look at this topic as I know you have and rethink your sales tactics.

I totally agree with you taking steps to protect your logo but when it comes to protecting words that most of the guy's on here use every day, then you went a step to far.

[AuRavelling79]

Look guys we're all having a moan at this company's business practices. But it doesn't affect us really does it?

Why would I want to put their logo on my vans? Only if I perceive that it adds to my reputation. Now.... if that is true then don't they have a point? If they've registered it then fair do's.

Now, the phrase "reach and wash" is open to interpretation. If I am trying to give the impression that I use "The Reach and Wash System" from Ionics then is that fair when I do not have their system? I think not.

But if I write in (say) orange Ariel script lettering "Malc Gold - reach and wash window cleaning" with no Ionics logo I would say that is less clear.

A traditional window cleaner is a reach and wash window cleaner in that he reaches and washes (with his applicator!).

So perhaps the issue is whether I am trying to give the impression I have an Ionics system when I have not.

And if I am and Ionics get their panties in a bunch over it (which from my perspective is a bit sad but each to his own - that's why CM drives some top of the range monzster-wagen kompressor jobby and i have a Pug 406 estate!) then I have to be prepared to explain myself, if necessary legally, or accept the consequences.

[David Slater]

Very nicely put Malc.

[FRESHER]

Im sure its been used, but i don't think its been trademarked, why not use "Reach and Clean" sounds better for window cleaners IMO.  unless your not a window cleaner and infact a window washer.

 

[Paul Coleman]

The one thing that totally put me off is that they forced Gardiner's poles to take off the info of their poles from their site.

Straight away this got my back up. If their poles are that good then surely they would be happy to have their poles compared to others.

If that is true than Ionics are way out of order, talk about wanting to be greedy in this world.

In my honest opnion Craig is a very good sales man but sometimes he goes way over the top. As a lot of you know a certain new window cleaning association was being formed then he goes and patient their name. That really showed his true colours but this Gardiners thing has gone way too far.

When I first saw the Ionics logo I was not impressed with it at all as they would do nothing in attracting customers for me. Ionics are well known for their pricy systems. So for me their logo stands for  "NICK ME"

I apologise to those who have had it done but it stands out a mile for the crook who knows it is an expensive system.

When their was a comparison made in the BWCA mag, carbon modular poles were specifically excluded from the testing.  Can't recall the reason given.  However, they are perfectly entitled not to have their products put on test by another manufacturer.  I trust Alex G and believe he would have given a totally fair test.