[DASERVICES]

This is to the phamton Ionics moles that come on here. It is clear and obvious that you guys go all out and try and punish the small guy if he even dares breath the word reach & wash.

Come the big suppliers who use the so called reach & wash in their websites you turn a blind eye for example Brodex use it." Our water purification high - reach & wash machines" So why pick on the small guys and turn a blind eye on others.

Is it the case that you do not own any rights at all.

I know 100% you guys visit this site for the wrong reasons but I strongly feel this is a case of double standards. If you cannot take on your competitors then surely leave the small minors alone.

Sorry but you have to treat everyone equal but it looks like you are not as Brodex and a few are challenging your rights!!!! So in fairness everyone can use your logos and so called phrases!!!

Please feel free to comment.
 

[peter holley]

lol....it must be the time of year getting to everyone :

[DASERVICES]

Peter it's called greed, not contempt with what they want. Everyone is struggling to make a decent living so why this.

Even I get but problem is what gets said always gets relayed back to me, so yes sorry time on the year.

Apologise but life is too short for people to backstab each other to earn millions!!!!!

[Nathanael Jones]

I applaud you Doug,... well said,.. and I agree with your sentiments 100%!

I doubt the Ionics moles will have the balls to reply tho.

[wightsurf]

I think the trademark (reach and wash) has reached this point,quote from Wikipedia

A trademark typically becomes "genericized" when the products or services with which it is associated have acquired substantial market dominance or mind share. The term is legally significant in that unless a company works sufficiently to prevent such broad use of its trademark, its intellectual property rights in the trademark may be lost.

[RSWindows]

Wouldnt say that they exactly dominate the market would you?

[Moderator David@stives]

Why would they listen to your challenge ?

Why would you want to use the R&W logo anyway ?

I would much more promote my business than theres.

Do builders go around with Bosch logos on their vans ?

[macmac]

I use (& always have) ionics logos, reach & wash etc on all my marketing stuff!

I've said it on here before, if they want to do owt about it then feel free to track me down!

Stuff 'em.

[Ian Rochester]

As I've said in the other post: 

"Imitation is the greatest form of flattery"

I'm not supporting Ionics, though why even try and get a logo close to theirs if it's not the intention to be perceived as being the same?

How many of us clean windows standing like the ionics man?  There are plenty of other designs people can make up to show what they are doing, why copy someone elses.

I think one of the best is actually getting a big photo of yourself on one of your prestige jobs, WFPing the windows and stick that on the side of your van, several carpet cleaners on here do it.

[Paul Coleman]

I really can't understand why someone would rather promote some else's trademark in preference to their own anyway.  I would think that when this has happened in the past, it has been by accident when someone hasn't been aware that "Reach and Wash" has been trademarked.  To some degree it has become a bit like calling a vacuum cleaner a hoover or a condom a durex.  Everyone knows what you mean but those words actually are brand names. 

[Mr H]

Just get your logo maker to show where they got the idea from. If it was from many of the copyright FREE books, websites etc then no problem but if you asked them to make one "similar" then your on thin ice.
Logo protection is to protect the company as well as the customers.... Would you like to go in to a takeaway that was called Mcdonalds and looked like Mcdonalds but was infact NOT Mcdonalds....?..... Would you be a bit anoyed if you thought you had bought a new £200 Ipod to discover it was actually an Ip0d worth £20.....?
What would you think if you went into a cafe that had HP sauce bottles on the table but it contained Asda own brand?
If you use Ionics logo but not using their producs then you are a LIAR.
If thelogo happens to be similar but came from a legit sorce then fine. Thats just like a supermarkets ownbrand useing the same colours as a top brand.
Its no good bad mouthing Ionics and then go using their logo to advertise your business....... It would be very hypocritical....
I don't like Ionics because of their high prices and terrible customer care and so I wouldn't even consider using something even similar to their logo. Even when talking to my insurance company about the system in my van and they ask "Is it a reach and wash" I make sure I tell them "Reach and wash is a tradename and that my system is very SIMILAR but not that make"

Regar
Mr H

[Paul Coleman]

Just get your logo maker to show where they got the idea from. If it was from many of the copyright FREE books, websites etc then no problem but if you asked them to make one "similar" then your on thin ice.
Logo protection is to protect the company as well as the customers.... Would you like to go in to a takeaway that was called Mcdonalds and looked like Mcdonalds but was infact NOT Mcdonalds....?..... Would you be a bit anoyed if you thought you had bought a new £200 Ipod to discover it was actually an Ip0d worth £20.....?
What would you think if you went into a cafe that had HP sauce bottles on the table but it contained Asda own brand?
If you use Ionics logo but not using their producs then you are a LIAR.
If thelogo happens to be similar but came from a legit sorce then fine. Thats just like a supermarkets ownbrand useing the same colours as a top brand.
Its no good bad mouthing Ionics and then go using their logo to advertise your business....... It would be very hypocritical....
I don't like Ionics because of their high prices and terrible customer care and so I wouldn't even consider using something even similar to their logo. Even when talking to my insurance company about the system in my van and they ask "Is it a reach and wash" I make sure I tell them "Reach and wash is a tradename and that my system is very SIMILAR but not that make"

Regar
Mr H

I have had the occasional customer ask if I use reach and wash - usually a commercial one.  I do tell them it works on the same basic principles, does the same job, but that I'm not allowed to call it that.

[Paul Golding]

One of my customers called my system a reach and wash the other day !! lol . . I don't want to be associated with ionics in any way. never bought anything from them, never will, not after all the things I've heard and experiences that friends have had with their service.

I think I'll send the details of my customer through to them . . . they can sue him for wrongfully using their name !! ha ha

[jaykie]

I can understand ionics being upset that people use the trademark ionics or the man on there van when they dont have the system but i think its wrong if the word "reach and wash" is wrong as this is like asda or tesco trademarking the word "super market" as its just simple a word to describe what you do.

Chris

[DASERVICES]

Here is an article some time back :- www.cleaning-matters.co.uk/stories/articles/-/newsletters/2006/october_2006/reach_wash_abusers_face_punishment/

100% agree that the trade is protected. However they cannot argue that the words " reach and wash " are trademarked. You cannot do this and any Court of law would reject it as the words are in the Engilsh dictionary, It is a bit  like me running along and and trade marking the words " window cleaner" and then saying I own it.

Their trade mark logo is protected but there is no way they can say they own those two words. I would happily challenge in a court of law as there is no way someone can own words in the English Dictionary even phrase words. I think there is a bit of scare mongering going on.

Yes agree with trade mark but, anyone can use reach and wash.

[RSWindows]

GO DOUG <-- in a chanting fashion! 

Just about to go see Inverclyde and issue another application and cheque.

Doug after new year you fancy meeting for a coffee then? it is Stirling you stay isnt it?

[DASERVICES]

That would be great. Could even meet you in Cumbernauld, half way.

Give us a bell as often in that area meeting other window cleaners.

[DASERVICES]

As we speak just had a phone call , I am in Glasgow next week.

[Alex Gardiner]

As Doug has said they do have the phrase 'Reach & Wash' trademarked.
www.ipo.gov.uk/ohim?ohimnum=E4682308
This is simply good business practise to do so and also to defend it so as to keep brand value.

I notice that the phrase 'Reach and Wash' is not trademarked though, probably because it was too generic, maybe?

Brodex may well have gotten around this because of using the phrase 'High-Reach & Wash'.

I notice that Brodex have also gone to a lot of trouble to register a lot of their names as trademarks - I don't notice anyone trying to use theirs unofficially though.

[AuRavelling79]

My new logo is the "Screech and Wash" system. It has the picture of an Owl sitting on a waterfed pole urinating and watching you with it's big eyes.

It's very good because if you infringe my copyright I'll screech at you and wash you at the same time.

Screech and Wash! Screech and Wash! CRRAAAAIGGCK!