[williamx]

It doesn't matter what you think about the one they have in Scotland, only vote if you would like some form of licence or are you dead against anyone telling you what you can do for a living.

[jouk45]

It doesn't matter what you think about the one they have in Scotland, only vote if you would like some form of licence or are you dead against anyone telling you what you can do for a living.

no one tells you what to do for a living, having a license does have an impact on those who we call the beer brigade, it certainly is working in my town, i am not even canvassing now, as i am getting loads of calls from custys saying there w/c have never come back, not even to pick up there money,  : wonder why, i know of at least 5 of them, doug has done a lot of hard work for us, and it is definitly paying of big time, you have to remember this takes time, especialy in the bigger citys to weed  all the beer brigade out, for every 10 w/c cought, 40 others will know about it, and the gap gets bigger and bigger, i am loving it,

[tonylee]

Hi
I have voted yes but do not think it would ever be policed or enforced and if that was the case it would just be an extra tax, for that it's a no vote
Tony

[Chris Galloway]

licensing means nothing if the public are not aware of the reasons and implications for them of using a window cleaner that has a license, or the licence is not back up with proper policing by whatever authority.

Its taken Scotland 10 years to actually start making the effort into policing it

I see good reasons why we should be licensed, but no good reasons to actually suggest it will work or be a good idea to implement.

But its another tax we have to foot, or "pass on" to the customers.

[jouk45]

but it is being policed tony, the license for w/c in scotland has been here for years, but was not properly run by the councils, and therfore everything was left to run down, but they still took the cash, this is where doug came in and booted there backsides, also using the law, doug had forced them to carry out there dutys, it is working no doubts about it,

[tonylee]

Jouk
Fair play to Doug but as you say for years before that it was not.
I agree with the fact the customers should know the benefits of a licensed window cleaner and that would help. However I still think it would just be a paper exercise.
Tony

[jouk45]

thing is tony, no one was there to keep them in check, now doug and his team are on the ball to make sure it keeps going, to never to let it slip again,

[williamx]

I have worked out that I will need 8 licences because I work in 8 different council areas, so for me to carry on trading as I am, it will mean I have to spend approx £1600 plus all the other extras that the councils might think it nessasary for me to trade.

[tonylee]

Hi Jouk.
Will not dissagree but when I think of the councills throughout England and Wales they would need a lot of teams to police it and ok the fee would go some way into paying their salaries, but I still think it would be a big drain on their resorces for very little gain. Lets assume the caught someone who was not licenced, the chances are they may be on the dole with limited income to pay the fine.
Again I'm not against it and would like it to work.
Tony

[williamx]

Every council in the UK has a department to enforce Heath and Safety, yet i still only have to drive down the street every day to see some workman breaking it.

[paulscotney]

As someone on another post pointed out: the dole cheats etc are not too bothered about going to prison for fraud so why would they be worried about a small fine for not having a licence, They wouldn't pay the fine either.

It would be just another Tax . I also work in two metropolitan Councils and one County Council area so I would need 3 licences, what a pain.

The only beneficaries would be the councils.

You better not smoke though when you do the insides, because that would be a serious matter

[tonylee]

Every council in the UK has a department to enforce Heath and Safety, yet i still only have to drive down the street every day to see some workman breaking it.

My point entirely.

[paulscotney]

Every council in the UK has a department to enforce Heath and Safety, yet i still only have to drive down the street every day to see some workman breaking it.

My point entirely.

Quite agree

[williamx]

The main reason that everyone wants a licence is to stop the "benefit cheat".

If they are being over-run with window cleaners who are on benefits, what you need is not a licence, you need the benefit fraud team to act, if they are not responding to your request that so and so is on benefit and working then go to their bosses in goverment.

Every town and city in the UK has a benefit fraud team, whats to stop them from leaving their cosy offices and asking every window cleaner they see for Id and National Insurance number, cross-check with computer and computer says "your Nicked" or thank you and have a nice day.

Whille they are about looking for these illegal window cleaners, they could also stop the painters and decorators the next door neighbour who fixes all these cars the guys who drop leaflets though your door etc etc

Or do we need licence schemes for every trade there is.

If on the other hand you want to look after the welfare of window cleaners, then what about proper training, proper health and safety awareness and yearly refresher courses.

[jouk45]

I have worked out that I will need 8 licences because I work in 8 different council areas, so for me to carry on trading as I am, it will mean I have to spend approx £1600 plus all the other extras that the councils might think it nessasary for me to trade.

i do agree with you the bit about having to obtain a license for every area, i do believe we should pay for one license, and be free to go and work anywhere, if the license scheme was to be brought in to england, then this could be one thing that would be brought up as part of the licensing plan, as you will be starting from new, unless they work on the same structure as scotlands licensing laws,

[Neil Williams]

If on the other hand you want to look after the welfare of window cleaners, then what about proper training, proper health and safety awareness and yearly refresher courses.

So after years in this profession are you suggesting I should attend these courses on a yearly basis. I don't need anyone to teach me what I already know.
Secondly do you think the dole cheats etc would attend these courses whilst still working on the side?
It would take years to finally bring in but I'm all for licensing. Afterall what other 'Cash' based professions get the freedom to just enter properties at will?
Sometimes people have to be forced into things. How many on here under their own steam have joined FWC, SafeContractor, APWC, Safety Aware Contractor etc etc? Hardly any compared to the number of window cleaners in the country.

[matt]

As someone on another post pointed out: the dole cheats etc are not too bothered about going to prison for fraud so why would they be worried about a small fine for not having a licence, They wouldn't pay the fine either.

that was me

i would love a license, but to be honest, the police would not be able to enforce it, they DO NOT have the manpower to cope now, they are beyond breaking point

[williamx]

If on the other hand you want to look after the welfare of window cleaners, then what about proper training, proper health and safety awareness and yearly refresher courses.

So after years in this profession are you suggesting I should attend these courses on a yearly basis. I don't need anyone to teach me what I already know.
Secondly do you think the dole cheats etc would attend these courses whilst still working on the side?
It would take years to finally bring in but I'm all for licensing. Afterall what other 'Cash' based professions get the freedom to just enter properties at will?
Sometimes people have to be forced into things. How many on here under their own steam have joined FWC, SafeContractor, APWC, Safety Aware Contractor etc etc? Hardly any compared to the number of window cleaners in the country.

You may not need to learn anything but can you say that you have never ever seen another cleaner who could learn something.

We already have laws and resoures that are supposed to tackle benefit fraudsters, why don't we start to use them more effectively, instead of having copycat regulations.

Even though there are benefit fraudsters cleaning windows, all of them are not robbing their customers, whereas every legal trade has bad apples, how many bar staff, fiddle the till, yet they all pay tax.

You want a licence scheme, why? and what will it do, that is not already cover by exsiting laws and regulations.

[Chris Galloway]

If on the other hand you want to look after the welfare of window cleaners, then what about proper training, proper health and safety awareness and yearly refresher courses.

How many on here under their own steam have joined FWC, SafeContractor, APWC, Safety Aware Contractor etc etc? Hardly any compared to the number of window cleaners in the country.

We join those as it help boost our professional image. Its how you get commercial contracts as they are looking for H&S orientated companies to use as they are in the poo if anything happens.

These do nothing for the regular domestic housewife in essence in relation to find a window cleaner.

I thought the new FWC magazine article about Caden's Window Cleaning Specialists was something to laugh at.

I quote from the magazine

Neil Caden proprietor says - Long gone are the days when you would see a window cleaner in cut off shorts with a rag hanging out of his back pocket... Thankfully the business has gained a more professional image and with this comes a need to prove that they are H&S compliant.

What a load of tosh.. you see these types of window cleaners all the time, carrying a B&Q ladder on top of the family car with a bucket stuck in the rungs and a rag tied to the back to boot. H&S legislation really only relates to commercial window cleaners and those that employ.

Licensing, and H&S in essence does nothing for the lower domestic side of things, where cheapness prevails - and the beer boys know that!

license or not they will still be around.

[DASERVICES]

Guys,

Think you're missing the point here, don't look at the negative start here in England. You can create the license to suit your Industry not the Council dictate it to you. To many organisations loose out by not looking at the Councils standards of service.

They have to give you a service so in turn if you had a powerfull organisatio behind you that knows the laws back to front you are onto a winner. It has taken some time for my to figure out the legal system in Scotland and to my benefit the Councils do not know it. So hence why we are starting to win.

So in summary to have licensing in England you need a very strong organisation that will represent your trade. They along with you decide the standards of service. The Council are then measured on performance, there is an added twist but will not go into it as there are vultures in this trade that will see it as a money making adventure for them when it shoud not be. It should be designed to help you guys make money and keep the illegal people out.

My advise if loads of you got together and got support accross the country with what you want from the license then you can petition parliament for a law to be passed. There is a way but make sure you are in control. There is a way where your subject can be discussed in Parliament you can find it in the government website. We have it hear it Scotland so I'm sure you will have it in England.

You will be designing something from scratch so design it correctly then try and get it passed through Parliament.

Hope this makes sense.