[NWH]

I was told that i must be mad to install the above in my van by more than 3 qualified gas engineers aswell as a fireman,when you here the facts from people who know what there on about it`s quiet an eye opener.

[Nathanael Jones]

Hundreds of thousands of caravans, RV's, tar wagons, welders vans etc etc have very similar setups.

The advantage window cleaners have is that we are always outside the vehicle when the heater is running.

Properly installed by a qualified person they can be perfectly safe,... but some basic precautions should always be taken. eg:

Always disconnect the gas regulator from the bottle when driving & when finished work for the day
Have an approved 2kg extinguisher in the cab of the van
Have a Carbon monoxide alarm
Have a fire action/escape plan
Install adequate ventilation in the vehicle (Gas is heavier than air, so a floor vent is a good idea)

There is a huge amount of research being undertaken at the moment regarding the legal requirements & health and safety issues of diy Hot systems (Thank you David!). There are regulations, but they aren't too hard to follow.

[Chris Galloway]

what are the facts NWH?

edit

Nath, you forgot operated by trained and competent personnel (manual handling, first aid, fire awareness etc)..

edit edit

Look at garden heating setup non of these are inspected regularly! you buy it, hook it up and away you go, from one summer to the next - with a gas bottle laying on a concrete floor outside in all weathers. 

[Moderator David@stives]

There is a difference between using gas for personal use and Commercial use.

Just think of all the working at height regs

[Kevin R]

youtube.com/watch?v=PYTV-QF4Hb0

[chris@c.m.s]

Look at garden heating setup non of these are inspected regularly! you buy it, hook it up and away you go, from one summer to the next - with a gas bottle laying on a concrete floor outside in all weathers. 

Garden heating is used outside therefore if there was a leak of gas you wont have the mixture of gas/air  that is required for the potential  explosion that would occur in a confined space.  

[matt]

Hundreds of thousands of caravans, RV's, tar wagons, welders vans etc etc have very similar setups.

The advantage window cleaners have is that we are always outside the vehicle when the heater is running.

Properly installed by a qualified person they can be perfectly safe,... but some basic precautions should always be taken. eg:

Always disconnect the gas regulator from the bottle when driving & when finished work for the day
Have an approved 2kg extinguisher in the cab of the van
Have a Carbon monoxide alarm
Have a fire action/escape plan
Install adequate ventilation in the vehicle (Gas is heavier than air, so a floor vent is a good idea)

There is a huge amount of research being undertaken at the moment regarding the legal requirements & health and safety issues of diy Hot systems (Thank you David!). There are regulations, but they aren't too hard to follow.

they are installed in most american RV's

the thing most miss, canal barges all have these type of heaters installed

i eblive they are also used in most hunting lodges aswell

it doesnt really matter though, the knockers will allways knock, thats how it is

[Chris Galloway]

There is a difference between using gas for personal use and Commercial use.

Just think of all the working at height regs

Im still waiting on the facts, show me the regs and i'll say ok, so far there are no regs. Everything people have brought up are for other uses, caravans, food catering units.

I suggest doing what David Slater has done, and look into this properly and contact the relevant bodies, such as DoT, HSE, and the VCD.

Personally i wont be dependant on davids findings i will be backing this up with my own research, but also using davids own research to help along the way.

[Kevin R]

they are installed in most american RV's

the thing most miss, canal barges all have these type of heaters installed

i eblive they are also used in most hunting lodges aswell

it doesnt really matter though, the knockers will allways knock, thats how it is

1. RV youtube.com/watch?v=hTnV7K6xtMs

2. Canal Barge news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/7044925.stm

3. Hunting Lodge uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WPRGXq_a5o4&feature=PlayList&p=9FB17CD6C928FC7F&index=0

Knock knock 

[chris@c.m.s]

There is a difference between using gas for personal use and Commercial use.

Just think of all the working at height regs

Im still waiting on the facts, show me the regs and i'll say ok, so far there are no regs. Everything people have brought up are for other uses, caravans, food catering units.

I suggest doing what David Slater has done, and look into this properly and contact the relevant bodies, such as DoT, HSE, and the VCD.

Personally i wont be dependant on davids findings i will be backing this up with my own research, but also using davids own research to help along the way.

I am waiting for a response from Corgi that should hopefully clear things up, when I get a reply it will be posted either way. 

[David Slater]

what are the facts NWH?

edit

Nath, you forgot operated by trained and competent personnel (manual handling, first aid, fire awareness etc)..

edit edit

Look at garden heating setup non of these are inspected regularly! you buy it, hook it up and away you go, from one summer to the next - with a gas bottle laying on a concrete floor outside in all weathers. 

Chris,

Those issues also apply to regular COLD WFP set ups along with -

1. Do you need to lean into your vehicle to operate the controls? - thats a Manual Handling issue

2. Do you need to step into your vehicle to operate the equipment? - Thats a Manual Handling, PUWER and MHSWA issue (ergonomics -for those that want to check)

3. Does your vehicle run on an explosive substance? (Gas, Diesel, Petrol) - This is a RRFO issue and you should have a Fire Action Plan in place (alongisde suitable fire extinguishers)




MOST of the issues surrounding HOT wfp also concern COLD wfp....

I must admit, I was quite surprised when I looked into this whole affair. If you think you're 'safe' using COLD wfp....think again!

THOUGHT - have we merely replaced on hazard with another?

I would argue WFP is at least as dangerous as using ladders without proper training, ergonomic design considerations (which seems scant at best!), due care to others who may be affected by our operations (which is appallingly low!).

It may not be the same set of Regs we're breaking as with ladder use.....we've just replaced them and are breaking other Regs instead!!!

[Chris Galloway]

David, stop its sunday night, your doing my brain in.. i got so much to keep up with already

[David Slater]

There is a difference between using gas for personal use and Commercial use.

Just think of all the working at height regs

Im still waiting on the facts, show me the regs and i'll say ok, so far there are no regs. Everything people have brought up are for other uses, caravans, food catering units.

I suggest doing what David Slater has done, and look into this properly and contact the relevant bodies, such as DoT, HSE, and the VCD.

Personally i wont be dependant on davids findings i will be backing this up with my own research, but also using davids own research to help along the way.

Chris,

This about the most sensible post I have read on CIU in a whole year!! 

I posted up my own research and included contact numbers and links to information I was given. And why and how we fall under or not under certain Regulations.

Do YOUR OWN research guys - dont rely on me or a mate down the pub or my brother works for the gas board.....

I did the groundwork, now go and check for yourself....but not with your mate down the pub. Try asking some government bodies who MAKE the Regs and ENFORCE them. 

This HOT wfp is quite unique and doesnt easily fall into a single category. That doesnt mean its BAD or WRONG...it just means its new and different.

Ionics dont seem to have a problem launching new and 'unique' products....dont YOU think you've got the skill and ability to do that research?

Anyhoo - for those that know, I did post up everything I found out and why we shouldnt be quoting duff info on motorhomes, caravans and burger vans etc etc etc...

Regards
David.

[David Slater]

David, stop its sunday night, your doing my brain in.. i got so much to keep up with already

lol...

I'm sorry Chris 

I'll stop now.

[David Slater]

There is a difference between using gas for personal use and Commercial use.

Just think of all the working at height regs

Sorry Chris...I couldnt resist

Dave,

As you are no doubt aware the Working at Height Regulations DO NOT specify a height at which it come into effect.

For clarification for those that may interested - It is NOT 2 metres or 3 metres or 1 metre or any other metre!!!

If a member of staff was to get into the back of the vehicle to turn the WFP machinery on or change a DI vessel or get equipment out of the vehicle or for any other reason...and slipped and fell on his way out:

He has "fallen" from height.

THAT breaches WAHR



.....So how 'safe' is COLD wfp?


Dont believe me...go check the HSE website 



 

 

[David Slater]

So nobody has anything further to add?

How strange?

Everyone seemed so SURE it was totally WRONG....but now the deafening silence?



So guys - what did YOU fnd out today?