[Clive McDonald]

As usual sound practical advice from Matt- i asked him these questions over a year ago. Some vans driving around actually do have side doors inserted into a panel.


This is what i think, but it is not what i know as a fact, What i think is that the purpose of having a seperate compartment with a door (on a motor home, caravan, etc) is that in the event of a fire, or indeed any kind of emergency the gas bottles can be accessed quickly without having to physicaly go into the body of something that could be dangerous.

Other suppliers have researched this and liability definitely is the stop issue. Nathaneal found some interesting info, the giste of which was that for a self fit there is no more real installation than exceeds the simple connection that gas barbecue users and caravan owners do quite legally and properly.

There are a couple of technical points (loop holes) that Nathaneal and I are aware of that would make it okay for a supplier.

[matt]

ref storage gas bottle lockers

h ttp://www.force4.co.uk/339/Force-4-Gas-Bottle-Locker.html

you will need to cut a hole in your van though

[David Slater]

how hot do you want the water?

I carry a 100gl tank which is has a heater coil connected to the van cooling system, as I drive between jobs it heats the water up. The tank is Insulated.

it also has a immersion element fitted so I can plug it in overnight ( or at a customers house) to pre-heat the water.

might be an alternative to fuel fired systems

mike

Now THAT is very interesting 

You've replaced the dangerous with a less dangerous option (substitution)

You dont carry ANY flammable liquid (be it gas diesel or petrol)...but you still get hot water. Which at the end of the day, is all we need.

I'm really interested in this system. Have you got any pictures or diagrams or anything Mike.

[Clive McDonald]

We've done all this- and properly- or at least wayne did search calorifier topics. It don't work. He bought an omni retrofit instead.

[Nathanael Jones]

I was under the impression Waynes system did work?
Its a very good idea,.. eco friendly,.. free to run,... helps old vans not to overheat!!

The calorifier tanks aren't cheap though,...

[Wayne Thomas]

I was under the impression Waynes system did work?
Its a very good idea,.. eco friendly,.. free to run,... helps old vans not to overheat!!

The calorifier tanks aren't cheap though,...

It does work. I use both systems.

Retro fit Omnipole on demand heater which is reliable except it has a set temperature and runs on diesel.

I also use a calorifier system connected up to my van radiator system and plumbed it all up to my tank, pump and flow controller. This will get excessively hot at times...too hot for window cleaning sometimes. The calorifier heat system is a green, eco-friendly, hybrid way forward for window, guttering, fascia, soffit & cladding cleaning when the temperature and heat source can be improved. I have played around with plenty of little ideas using this system and have found many ways to make it much more economical and practical to run this heat system for everyday wfp use which I plan to do when I fit my new set up into my next van when these difficult and uncertain financial times are behind us.

I would happily explain all my heat and cost saving ideas, but only to a wfp supplier who is interested in building a hot water fed system with minimal running costs totally from the ground upwards, but only in return for one of their completely new built thermal wfp systems, fitted and trialled as a freebie into my van as an experimental offer, as I have invested a lot of time and ideas on this eco way forward on the cheapest method of heating water for wfp use without the need to use gas or diesel. If any supplier would like to see my set up working and have my ideas fully explained to them feel free to get in touch via my website: www.windowswashed.co.uk

Varitech now sell their own hot wfp system, partly because I persuaded Mike about the benefits of using a hot wfp system a while back. I have plenty of ideas of utilising free heat and preventing cold wfp sytems freezing up overnight during winter months but I don't have the financial funding or time to put all my ideas into the commercial wfp market hence if a wfp supplier is reading this reply I am open to discussion.

IMO this would and could be the way forward for an alternative and practical Thermal wfp system if a big supplier could have this system manufactured and sell at an attractive price to the window cleaning and car valeting market.

[Clive McDonald]

Wayne knows what he's talking about and all his information is genuine.

I notice he is now a guest, and must have deleted his account.

I hope this is not at disgust at my comment 'it doesn't work'. I apologise for this because it clearly does. I was trying to summarise a very complex issue and I mean't that having done it about as ingenuisely as is possible wayne had still purchased a retro fit. I can see how my comments might have peeed him off and if that is the case then i regret them.

I don't think this is anything to do with me, but you never know.

[ftp]

What if the water was heated in the safety of your garage after your static tank and just transferred to an insulated van tank first thing in the morning?

[elite mike]

What if the water was heated in the safety of your garage after your static tank and just transferred to an insulated van tank first thing in the morning?

seems like a really good idea

[ftp]

I dunno but your heater could be electric or run off the household gas or even be some kind of immersion tank? No problems with safety then.

[Moderator David@stives]

Remember the regs are more inportant for commercial use rather than if you were just using it for yourself.

ie if you were renting your house out , you would need a gas certificate for the boiler etc.



I know this is for catering but i reckon some of it applies to commercial use.

http://www.calorgas.co.uk/safety/using-calor-gas-safely/Guidelines-for-the-safe-use-of-LPG-in-mobile-catering-units.pdf

[Moderator David@stives]

This where trade associations come in handy.

 I would urge any mobile heater users to contact your federation or trade association.

If you are taking money from your members and giving them advice, do you know you could be held responsible.

[David Slater]

This where trade associations come in handy.

 I would urge any mobile heater users to contact your federation or trade association.

If you are taking money from your members and giving them advice, do you know you could be held responsible.

And which federation or trade association is "giving advice" on this subject Dave?

Are you suggesting that somebody who has done their own research and posted up their findings in response to a question from another member on a discussion forum somehow implies the association itself can be deemed to be "giving" that "advice" ?

As I'm sure CIU is aware, it doesnt matter if you are taking money or not:
If you DEFAME someones character or business or trade association, that person AND the forum host are liable.



Why not just ring the relevant government bodies directly and ASK THEM!! 





 

[Moderator David@stives]

David

I could be wrong but the guild and its linked website, look like they are giving advice to there members on how to make a diy gas set up.

As I said I could be wrong.

My advice would be , dont do it. I am sure the fed would give advice along those lines too.

Dave

[Clive McDonald]

i've told him loads of times, i'm a bit like a stuck record, but he just doesn't seem to see the risk, and it goes very much beyond the case you make.

For all my blathering I have never given direct advice, apart from bypass' etc.


The advise in your link was fairly clear. There is a difference though.

[MoemGorod]

Hi, mates.

We have equiped the first hot wfp system for the tradeshow in Moscow last week. We used two types of Webasto Thermo Top h ttp://www.webasto.com/products/en/3115_3422.html ... plus air heater.

[MoemGorod]

more

[MoemGorod]

.. more pictures at h_ttp://www.moemgorod.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=54

regards,

Vadim / MoemGorod™

[David Slater]

David

I could be wrong but the guild and its linked website, look like they are giving advice to there members on how to make a diy gas set up.

As I said I could be wrong.

My advice would be , dont do it. I am sure the fed would give advice along those lines too.

Dave

Dave,

I hear what you're saying and to some degree, I can see you are making a valid point. It would come down to interpretation I suppose.

However, after re-reading my own posts and those of other members on this subject, I think it is fair to say they are in no way offering advice. They have done their own research/testing and offered it up on a discussion forum for "discussion". When questions have been asked - answers have been given (from their own perspective).

Surely that is no different to somebody saying soft rubbers are rubbish or hard rubber are brilliant? - they have done their own research and come to a conclusion which they have shared when the subject arose.

There are literally hundreds of posts covering hundreds of topics, gas systems is just one of them.

Gas systems seem to form a rather large part of discussions on CIU as well    Should we delete/ban them on CIU?

You have opened up a very interesting topic though - - -

Should we also ban discussions of DI vessels in vehicles....surely a breach manual handling Regs?

What about discussing carrying poles without using 'safe' containers...surely a breach of MHSWA?

What about systems that have not been ergonomically designed forcing the user to lean or step into the vehicle to reach controls....surely a breach of PUWER and MHSWA and Manual Handling and WAHR?

......should I go on? 

If the Fed or CIU was accepting payment from companies that offered products which possibly breached any of these Regs...do you think it fair to say that as they brought them to the attention of members (through paid advertisement) that they should be held jointly and severally liable for any breach or civil/legal action?




If Nat was selling a guide on 'How To' set up a gas system, then that would be a totally different kettle of fish...and I'd be right behind you 100%

The Guild offers far more than just this one topic so I think it would be unfair to suggest Nat is taking money to seel a 'How To' guide.....all just my own thoughts of course 

Regards
David.

[Clive McDonald]

He was offering a guide, free on joining or by purchase on ebay. Plus mods to relays etc.Good guy, but living dangerous.