[Nathanael Jones]

I've got "Thermoshine", John Garnet has "Thermoclean",... and I've heard of some ppl using "Aquashine".

All better than "Reach & Wash" IMO!!

[Tony Warren]

If you fit a system such as an L5 heater (often discussed on here) then you will have a cheap hot water system. But bear in mind If you have a seriours road collision your fault or not, then you may find yourself in hot water.

I personally would be suprised if carbon monoxide fumes left in the van from its use would cause you to drift into unconsciousness whilst driving, but the law may not look at it like that.

L5 heaters are designed to be fitted and used outside (weather you open your doors or not when in use) from a regulation point of view if it is fitted in the inside of the vehicle with the gas bottle, it should not be. I suspect your insurance company will be your best friend as they will not pay out if they find out how you have modded your vehicle, you will be the one doing the paying.

Should you be the cause of a serious collision and any subsequent investigation highlights the above then your freedom may be at risk never mind your assets.

Its a matter of are you happy to take the risk or not. Personally i would not be as in my opinion the need is not greater than the risk.

[Tony Warren]

Thanks for the info discount but i had worked out the system fires up when you actually clean windows and that is why i wrote i personally don't think Carbon monoxide fumes would be an issue.

However my point is would the powers that be see it that way, if you fit a system in a place regulations say it should not be (weather you have fitted a flu or not) then you are at risk from the law.

If this guy wants a hot water system then the point i am trying to make to him is think about the type of system he puts in. This advice is much more constructive than the first two posts and the last sentance on your post.

And by the way i am neither stupid or ill informed if thats what you are aiming at.

[Clive McDonald]

just kidding. no worries. Post deleted. I've just read andrews post. this information is incorrect and misleading.

[matt]

ref the fumes


a mushroom style roof vent, under 10 quid on ebay

job done

[G & M]

kevin do you have a link to varitechs hot system?

[Nathanael Jones]

ref the fumes


a mushroom style roof vent, under 10 quid on ebay

job done

I've got 3 of them,.. 1 to vent the exhaust fumes from the heater,.. 2 to let fresh air back in.

[matt]

you can even search on ebay for the Fiamma Vent's

they come as a nice unit that will sandwich the roof between them

[Tony Warren]

Thank you Discount, no hard feelings.

I dont care if guys fit an L5 heater to the steering wheel and configure the flow valve to run the burner constantly, previous post just thinking outside the box.

[David Slater]

I know what you are saying NWH

For anyone else please don't get the intention of my post wrong.

I don't have anything at all against DIY and have no axe to grind because I don't supply hot water systems.

Far from bad mouthing it I honestly really liked the idea of a very well priced hot water option for those that wanted it from a supplier. As stated what I have said is based on the research that I have done from a suppliers point of view and so far it just doesn't look viable as a low cost option.

If my research has come up with wrong info then I apologise. I did speak directly to Calor about this. Not a receptionist or the like it was someone in their tech department who gave me the info.

Some interesting reading can be found here  www.bcga.co.uk/preview/publications/L12005.pdf

Andrew.

Andrew,

I appreciate your thoughts on this subject but wondered whether you could quote the specific REGULATION under HWSA (1974) or HSG65, DESEAR or maybe ADR or possibly another Regulation, Act, ACOP or maybe the European 6 pack....which bans the use of Liquid Gas (Butane or Propane) - normally known as "LPG" for use in a vehicle?   

I'm not quite sure which Regulation you are quoting or applying as evidence of a breach...and which Regulation is being breached?

Motorhomes DO NOT require a 'gas tight' compartment for their LPG bottles.

For the sake of clarification for all concerned, please could you quote (or ask Calor to quote) the EXACT REGULATION for carrying a 19Kg bottle of LPG which REGULATION is being breached - what section? what sub section? what heading? and what term?

Many thanks and best wishes
David.

My own research -

www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/manual/adrcarriage.htm

www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg370.pdf

ec.europa.eu/enterprise/pressure_equipment/ped/index_en.html

www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/hid/din/517.pdf

www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/contacts.htm

www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/dsear/background.htm

None of which mentions anything you have quoted?

[Clive McDonald]

This was the man at calors (not the receptionist unfortunately who may have been a bit better informed) view point. This view is one that takes the safest line from the companies perspective of not giving out either duff or culpable info.

Ask anyone in gas and usually they won't tell you anything and direct you towards a corgi engineer. As Nwh stated concept are pretty  thorough. Andrew is a good guy. He is right that this is a none starter as a supplier, but wrong as you point out David about the substance.The example he did not give was that of blacksmiths.

This is one of those, it's illegal to use ladders things.

Your posts are always very well thought through and well researched mr slater.You are probably a bit wasted on here.

[chris@c.m.s]

Here's a link to some lpg guidelines  it doesn't specifically cover what we may use it for it does cover mobile catering and the same gas regs would be equally relevant I would imagine.  http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cais23.pdf

[Andrew McCann]

Yawn.. morning all 

Thanks for the replies. David.. I started to look at all that stuff you posted links to and ended up something like this  :  :

I haven't got the time or the attention span and me reading glasses need replacing 

I find that if you trawl the net enough re regulations on anything you will end up with all sorts of different interpretations possible. Discount is quite right. It's a bit like the ladder regs situation so I thought it best to get it from the horses mouth so to speak and phoned Calor.

I told them exactly what I wanted to do and got the replies that I have posted.

As to quoting reg number X sub section Y etc I can't and didn't ask Calor for them either. I did discuss it in depth and was satisfied with the info that I was given. Calor are in the business of selling gas so I doubt that they would give info that prevents them from doing it. This could be a very lucrative market for them.

I was researching it from a suppliers point of view and indeed it is a no go. Not just from a financial standpoint. Liability could be a very major issue as well.

As I said I have no axe to grind re this at all. I don't currently sell hot systems. There is still a great demand for cold systems and I am already booked up into mid January fitting them.

From a purely personal point of view if I were to consider fitting a system like this for my own use window cleaning I would want to make very sure that I did comply with any regulations because as has been pointed out insurance etc could be a very major issue.

Peple like Matt have gone to great lengths re ventilation against CO2 which is laudable. I didn't even get to that point. It was merely the carriage and storage of the gas bottle that put the mockers on it for me 

All the best to you all 

Andrew

[David Slater]

Andrew,

I wasn't trying to pick a fight or question your integrity 

I too had looked at the Regs and just couldnt find anything which applied to us!

When you said Calor had told you it was 'no go'.. I wasnt trying to question this advice or call you a liar!!
I was really interested (and pleased!) someone had actually found a piece of legistlation concerning our use of gas.
 
I just wanted to read the Regulation that was being breached and thought maybe they'd told you which one it was.

Regards
David.

[Andrew McCann]

David. Honestly I know you weren't trying to pick a fight or anything like that at all 

It transpires thanks to your very thorough research that the info given to me by Calor was in essence wrong  to a great extent.
 

A member of this forum very kindly called me today and directed me to the info posted by you on another site. I must say how impressed I am by it and want to say thank you.

There are some basic common sense things that anyone fitting this type of system have to adhere to. Even these probably make it not practicle to offer the systems as a supplier. Time will tell I suppose.

Andrew

[Chris Galloway]

Here's a link to some lpg guidelines  it doesn't specifically cover what we may use it for it does cover mobile catering and the same gas regs would be equally relevant I would imagine.  http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cais23.pdf

No mobile catering is different, as the user is working in close proximity in an enclosed space to the gas bottle.

David Slater has suggested this would be no good for our purposes and that also includes that of gas bottles with use of caravans etc due to habitation.

[chris@c.m.s]

As long as Dave says its Ok then it must be 
Personally as qualified plumber and after 2 years working on gas appliances, there is know way I would contemplate doing what some on here are doing, "Gas appliances should be fitted by a competent person" is what I was trying to point out in the link, I think that would apply to most installations used in any confined space with a van is. 

[matt]

if you have a van with a side door, it would be very easy to " box off " the area of the sliding door, fit the heater to that and have the sliding door open, no-1 would be able to get into the van as it would be secured by " boxing off ", which could very easy be made to be air tight and secure

thus a separate area for the heater

job done

[Chris Galloway]

As long as Dave says its Ok then it must be 
Personally as qualified plumber and after 2 years working on gas appliances, there is know way I would contemplate doing what some on here are doing, "Gas appliances should be fitted by a competent person" is what I was trying to point out in the link, I think that would apply to most installations used in any confined space with a van is. 

The installation is fine according to David on another forum! he's been in contact with the HSE, DoT and some other place that deal with gas, cant remember exactly..

There is a list of requirements you need to follow etc.

The appliance once ive installed it will be checked by a corgi regged engineer anyway.

[Mike Halliday]

how hot do you want the water?

I carry a 100gl tank which is has a heater coil connected to the van cooling system, as I drive between jobs it heats the water up. The tank is Insulated.

it also has a immersion element fitted so I can plug it in overnight ( or at a customers house) to pre-heat the water.

might be an alternative to fuel fired systems

mike