[gwrightson]

I do believe that the prowler can be uded as a portie,

so all in all a far better machine

Geoff

[mark shannon]

Nigel lets see pics of mods on Ninja

Mark

[Jim_77]

Jim,

Have you got a 3 vac Ninja? I have one that I have modified to produce significantly better vacuum levels, similiar to the Scorpion. With the modified Ninja I am running 2 inch hose up to 100 foot with no problems at all. It is quieter than the Scorpion and has tremendous heat from the inline heat exchanger. If you are interested I will take some pics of the mod. It would help to avoid the need to hook up 2 ninjas together I think. By the way I have 2 Scorpions as well so I know exactly what that machine can and can't do.

Nigel

My Ninjas are both twin-vac configured in the normal series way.  When I hook the up together with a Y junction, I'm doubling the airflow but keeping the same lift (in theory, on paper of course)

Are you saying you've modified one machine to run three vac motors, in parallel rather than series?

[clinton]

Think he runs them parallel but its going to drain a lot of amps from the mains box

[Jim_77]

That's what I was thinking.  My twin-cable machine is already using up most of the permissible current on each cable, so how do you get the extra vac in???  That's one of the reasons why the scorpion doesn't have a heater.  The only way I could think of doing 3 vac motors, pump, cooling fan and heater all in one machine with 2 cables is to have one cable to operate either the heater or the extra vac, but not both at the same time.

Anyway, we're just guessing here

Hopefully Nigel will get back into the discussion and tell us how he's done it

[Nigel_W]

Hi,

Here is a pic of my modified Ninja.

First of all I am using 3 x cables which I have never found to be a problem. The Ninja is a standard Ninja with 2 x 3 stage vacs in series and an internal heat exchanger. In a standard setup the 3rd vac would also be in series. However this seemed to provide little additional suction or air flow. I decided to experiment by plumbing the 3rd vac directly into the waste tank. The difference in suction and airflow is quite significant. Its vacuum performance is much nearer to the Scorpion now and I am able to run up to 100 foot of 2 inch hose. I think I especially notice it because I am using 2 inch vac hose and a 2 inch wand.

Please note I do not suggest anybody does this mod at the moment. I have spoken to Derek Ashby and at some point soon we are going to redo the mod with proper shut off valves etc to make a more professional job. I was willing to cut holes in my Ninja and experiment at my cost because I knew there was more performance there to be had. If it had gone wrong it could have cost alot of money in damaged vac motors and new waste tank lids. However I have been running it for 4 weeks now and I have not yet experienced any problems.

If I want to run it as a standard 2 vac machine I have a cap to close off the port in the waste tank lid.

I prefer this set up to my Scorpion because it is much quieter and I always use it indoors because I have a Blueline Thermalwave as well. I also find the Ninja to be better built and I like having the internal heat exchanger.

Maybe Ashby's will start to make a Ninja with 2 inch ports with this mod as standard. If it lasts the test of time it makes a fantastic versatile portable machine.

Nigel

[clinton]

Nigel

Looks like a dif set up as i thought it was.

How does that waste tank hold up with that direct extra vac being plumbed in?

Is derek going to bring some sort of proto type out?

Cheers clinton

[Jim_77]

Very interesting Nigel!

If I remember right, the Lamb 5.7" motors used in ninjas develop approx 7.5" Hg of lift and move roughly 109 cfm

There's something I can't get my head around about this mod - I can't help thinking it's a little lop-sided set up like this.  You have 15" Hg pulling from the 2 in-series motors inside the machine, and 7.5" through the booster unit.

Theoretically, on paper, you've altered your setup from moving 109cfm up to 218cfm.  I can't decide whether your vacuum lift would remain at 15" or if it would somehow end up half way between the two, i.e.  at 11.25"

What I'm thinking, is the stronger pair of motors trying to steal air from the weaker motor set up all on its lonesome back there?

I certainly see where you're coming from with the mod though (I think Stu Clark up in the north east has done this to his ninja too), it's a much better way of using what's there.  3 vac motors in a line seems pretty pointless to me, all that suck but not much movement (fnar fnar :p)

[Nigel_W]

Clinton,

The waste tank seems to be holding up fine. It was not one of my concerns. I don't think Ashby's have any immediate plans to do anything. They may change their minds once they feel the performance (assuming mine doesn't fall to pieces )

Jim,

It certainly feels like the cfm's have doubled.

I was concerned about the lopsidedness maybe putting excessive strain on the 3rd vac motor. Derek Ashby didn't seem to think it would be a problem. Only time will tell. My view was that if it proved fatal I would replace the vac motor and replace the waste tank lid and carry on my hunt for the perfect portable.

Nigel

[mark_roberts]

Nigel

Where did the third vac go to begin with as standard??

Ive a Ninja but was considering upgrading to the Scorpian for the extra vac.  I prefer the vacs in parallel from my days with an Alltec machine so this interests me a lot.  Also i want to use 2inch hose and my 14inch wand with the portable too.

I thought the Scorpain had a silencer system??  But the Ninja is so quiet i think my Sebo is noiser.

thanks
Mark

[Joe H]

Mark

The Scorpion silencers are an option.

Hoever, as the machine will normally be parked outside the house..... applying the truckmounters theory that noise is good (attracts the neighbours attention) then whats wrong with the Scorpion being noisey?

[Nigel_W]

Mark,

The third vac is usually attached to the exhaust port of the first two vacs. This is at the rear  of the machine. This would mean that all three vacs are pulling through each other. This seems to give plenty of lift but limited airflow. By plumbing the third vac directly into the waste tank the airflow is given a significant boost. No problems using 2 inch hose and wands.

Nigel

[Joe H]

Full marks for ingenuity Mark. I hope it continues to work without problems.

[Nigel_W]

Joe,

It is different for me as I only use my portables indoors. I have a Thermalwave TM for jobs with parking. I tend to use my portables on apartment jobs where the machine is in the hall or outside the door in common parts. If you have ever heard the noise of a Scorpion on a marble floor you would understand. You tend to attract the sort of attention that you would not want

If your work means the Scorpion can stay outside I don't think there is a problem with the noise.

Nigel

[mark shannon]

Mark

The Scorpion silencers are an option.

Hoever, as the machine will normally be parked outside the house..... applying the truckmounters theory that noise is good (attracts the neighbours attention) then whats wrong with the Scorpion being noisey?

Don't know about Scorpion Joe but my Recoil is way noisier than any TM Ive heard

Looks good Nigel how heavy is the Ninja compared to Scorpion?

[mark_roberts]

Joe

I use a portable for the likes of nursing homes, offices and apartments where the Tm cant get access and the portable would be inside so noise is an issue.

This weekend Im cleaning only 50sqm 300ft from the TM in a hotel so the Ninja mods that Nigel has done would be great.

I hate using the Ninja as it feels so powerless compared to the TM and only ever use 25ft of hose so more vac power would be great.

I do however have the mitey one booster/portable so could use this too.

Mark

[Nigel_W]

Hi Joe,

Are you having a senior moment

Nigel "the ingenious one"

[Nigel_W]

Mark,

It is slightly heavier - but I lift it on and off the back of my transit. If you have a van with a low rear floor it would be easy. Mine did come with some wheels attached to the handle for loading it on and off the van. I took them off because my transit floor is too high and I have a great big rear step. :

Nigel

[Joe H]

Mark
The Scorpion silencers are an option.
Hoever, as the machine will normally be parked outside the house..... applying the truckmounters theory that noise is good (attracts the neighbours attention) then whats wrong with the Scorpion being noisey?

Don't know about Scorpion Joe but my Recoil is way noisier than any TM Ive heard
Looks good Nigel how heavy is the Ninja compared to Scorpion?

The Scorpion is quieter then the Recoil I am led to believe.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Joe, I thought you had bought Truckmount.

Cheers

Doug