[windows_chepstow]

I recently had a charity slip through my door, asking for money and claiming that FISHING was the UKs most dangerous industry.  So I've had a 'Google' and found the following:

This link reckons Window Cleaners have the most dangerous occupation - the statistics were compiled by Churchill Insurance.  Soldiers come second:

http://money.msn.co.uk/insurance/Insight/Journals/TakeCover/mostdangerousjob/default.asp

In this link, window cleaners don't even appear in the top ten:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2195847.stm

The second link is a couple of years older than the Churchill report, which suggests to me that in the past two years, Window Cleaning has emerged from being a rank outsider to becoming the No 1 work-related killer.  This coincides with the popularity of the WFP.  I didn't think they were dangerous!  Now that can't be true, unless you WFP guys are bashing each other with them, therefore the statistics must be severely defective.

Also, now I mention statistics; where also does this figure of 'ten window cleaners a year die' originate from?  I've been window cleaning for two years now, and have only heard of one window cleaner in the Republic of Ireland (not the UK) that has died from a fall.

Undoubtedly window cleaning can be dodgy, but calling it 'our most dangerous occupation' is a little far fetched; I think - and it just worries my missis - who made me leave the army because she didn't want me going back for Gulf War II (ironic or what?).

Does anyone know of a UK window cleaner who died last year?  Maiming doesn't count - just deaths - as in 'ten die a year'.

Has the figure now reduced due to the wide use of WFP?

Is it an insurance company scam to bump up our personal accident insurance?

On a final note:  Stay safe.  Don't become a statistic.  It forces my insurance premiums up!

[bumper]

Yes 2 window cleaners from the norh west got killed last year 1 was local he over streched, and his  ladder went, they found him dead on the floor.

[Ian_Giles]

Any trade that works off a ladder most of the time carries a high risk I think, painters and decorators, roofers, aerial installers and so on.

10 people throughout the land isn't many (I'm not trying to trivialise) so we are unlikely to here of the deaths that occur.
But there are countless accidents and injuries, and I have known an awful lot of people who have had some terrible injuries from ladder related falls.
Very few will have escaped completely unscathed, use ladders for long enough and you will have accidents, you may suffer no injury (apart from your pride ) but you will have more than a few close calls along the way.

Nothing to do with window cleaning, but on my old mans building company a guy was crushed to death by the JCB he was operating.
He had got out of the cab and was doing something around the back actor, his jacket was draped partly over the controls.
It was a windy day, and one gust caused his jacket to flap in the wind.
The movement was enough to activate the control lever.
They said he was slowly crushed to death, there was no one around to help him, and he didn't have the breath to be able to cry out.
Every time the wind blew it crushed him a little more.........

What a horrible way to die.

Yet another that has nothing to do with window cleaning, and as it happens it occured on the same site as the JCB one.
This time it was me
I was 15 or so at the time, was working in the summer hols to earn a little money. I was labouring at the time.
This was at a place called Micheldean, and the factory that the old man was building was Rank Xerox.
I was mixing compo and had to barrow it onto a hoist that was contained in a cage.
The guy 5 floors up would wait for you to exit out of the front and would then pull the rope that engaged the beld driven hoist.
On this occasion I had put the barrow full of compo on the hoist, but the muppett up above wasn't paying attention and pulled the rope before I had got off.
I tried to jump off, but the first horizontal pole of the cage caught my head as the hoist was starting to shoot up the side of the building.
By now the other guys were hollering up at the guy pulling the rope.
to no avail, he couldn't hear a thing over the clatter of the diesel engine.
Stunned, I was knocked onto my back, but now this pole had me trapped across the chest,
The engine of the hoist was labouring as it tried to continue its journey, crushing my chest in the process.
It was only when he looked down and saw smoke coming of the belts that he let go of the rope and I then fell the 8 or 10 feet to the ground.
They carted me to the side of a shed, propped me up and gave me a nice cup of sweet tea from someones flask
I was allowed an hour to recover then had to get back to work. Would have much rather gone in an iron lung at least that would have done my breathing for me
Didn't use that blo ody hoist again though

My dad took me to hospital on the weekend, I had a few broken ribs, but never mind eh?
Mind you, I did get a nice cup of tea out of it

Can you imagine the pallava should such a thing happen today?

The site would have been closed down, an investigation would have been held, and I might even have had the rest of the day off

I know, I know, I've gone way off topic.

Ian

[rosskesava]

I can't find the HSE report but I do remember reading that nearly all fatalities and injuries with ladders occur from falls below 12 ft high and that painter/decorators were the highest risk group.

Also that complancency, unneccessary risk taking and over confidence were by far away the biggest single cause of death/injury.

I am also certain that 'unavoidable' (apart from not using the ladder) incidents were well under half a percent of the total.

[Philip Hanson]

I can't find the HSE report but I do remember reading that nearly all fatalities and injuries with ladders occur from falls below 12 ft high

www.hse.gov.uk/consult/condocs/cd192.pdf

Page 12 & 13:

"research carried out in support of the Falls from Height Priority
Programme has shown that around 60% of all major injuries are caused by falls from heights below 2m."

-Philip

[rosskesava]

Hi Philip

Thanks for the info. Interesting document. It'll take me a good few days to look through it.

Yup - it was 2m and not 12ft. 12ft was the height at which people tend to start becomming carefull with regards falling etc. I must do something about my memory.

The document I found was a HSE report solely related to injuries whilst using  ladders.

The problem is that lately I looked at so many odd reports, documents, etc that I've lost track of what is what.

Untill we go over to WFP's sometime this year I've been trying to find out exactly what are the commonest causes of incidents with ladders so as we can avoid them.

[windows_chepstow]

Thank you for the posts, but it's still not 10 window cleaners dying on average, per year!  And no-one knows how many window cleaners there actually are!  So even if there was this death rate; any percentage statistic would be based on guess work.

This site says there's 26,000 window cleaners in the UK, 'probably many more':

http://www.connexions.gov.uk/jobs4u/summary.cfm?id=501 (It's quite a funny read, very out of date - ensure you check out the 'additional info' and take note of earning £4 to £7 per hour).

So lets say there's 25,000 window cleaners who use ladders.  It's a smaller figure than given above, but lets add some for the 'probably many more', then deduct a chunk for those WFP users who never use ladders.

Therefore, if ten window cleaners actually did die per year, per 25,000 window cleaners, then that makes us more than fifty percent safer than fishermen, given that this site says (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2195847.stm) 'out of every 100,000 fishermen, 103 will die at work'.

I just can't see how Churchill Insurance can publish a press release saying we're working in the most dangerous industry in the UK! And where does the figure of 'ten window cleaners die' on average every year come from.  I've seen it fairly often, banded about in this forum.

We're talking about quite a serious condition here - death - so where's the proof that our occupation is that dangerous.  We can't trust an insurance company's report on our industry.  That would be like trusing a peaodophile to baby sit our children.

In the (I'm guessing 'independant') study carried out by the Oxford University, we don't even rate in the top ten.

Who are you going to trust?  Independant research by the Oxford University; or Churchill, who publish their report, then tell you where to 'click' to purchase their insurance.

Statistically, I think we're quite safe on our ladders; unless anyone can show otherwise!

[NBwcs]

This figure of ten a year, is that ten professional wc's killed whilst at work or ten people falling from ladders who were cleaning windows ? If it includes "Joe public"cleaning their own then it paints a different picture again. I presume its professionals but can anyone verify that?  Cheers Nick

[wrighty]

Nick,

I would say maybe the vast majority of the window cleaners where cowboys or seasonal alcoholics who needed some beer money.

I am not saying it is a fact but I don't think many if any who have died would be professional, careful & sensible cleaners.

Ask yourself how many of the above you come across and how many pros you come across.  I can honestly say that the idiots certainly out weigh the pros.

Regards,

Craig

[rosskesava]

I agree with Wrighty.

They're doing the roofs around here and a few weeks ago I watched an idiot half way up a ladder acting as a go between. The bloke down the bottom was passing lengths of facia up to the bloke up the top via the bloke on the ladder.

Last year we watched a w/c at the top (standing on the 2nd rung down and holding onto a drainpipe) of a 2nd section of a ladder standing on one foot stretching sideways to do a window with an 8 or 10 ft pole. The window was above him but a few feet to one side. It made my stomach turn over.

With regards HSE statistics, I'm sure all the info is somewhere on their website but after 30 minutes looking, I've given up.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/index.htm

[NBwcs]

Thanks for that, I see what you mean. I did find this which seems to contradict the idea that we are the "Highest risk"...
Fatal Injuries
Falls from height are the most common cause of fatal injuries to employees and the self-employed. High falls are the biggest cause of fatal injury. On average, about 50% of fatal injuries as a result of a fall from height happen in construction, with the remaining 50% spread across other industries
                               This comes from the HSE site itself, (http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/information.htm) perhaps  insurance Companys would benefit from a butchers.( or as already mentioned, perhaps they wouldnt!!)
                         Cheers Nick

[telboy]

I AGREE WITH WHATS BEEN SAID ABOUT YOU CANT TRUST THE INSURANCE COMPANY'S

PERHAPS THE FED SHOULD LOOK INTO FACT OR FICTION AND
FIND OUT WHAT THE FATALITY STATS ARE CONCERNING WINDOW CLEANING    

TELBOY

ANGEL C/S