[Chris Galloway]

Extending consumer cancellation rights to "doorstep" contracts made with traders during solicited visits

Relevant to
All traders who enter into a contract with a consumer in the consumer's home or workplace or another individual's home, or on an excursion organised by the trader away from the trader's business premises in the UK subject to some exceptions

Takes effect on
1 October 2008

From 1 October 2008, new regulations will extend the existing law on cooling-off periods and cancellation rights for consumers. They will cover contracts made during both solicited visits made by traders - ie visits made at the consumer's request - and unsolicited visits by traders. The visits could take place in a consumer's home or workplace, or another individual's home, or on an excursion organised by the trader away from the trader's business premises in the UK. Certain exceptions may however apply.

Under the new regulations, traders will be required to provide the consumer with all of the following terms and conditions:

    * a minimum cooling-off period of seven calendar days starting with the date of receipt by the consumer of a notice of the right to cancel from the trader
    * the right within the cooling-off period to cancel a contract with a total payment value of more than £35
    * cancellation rights clearly and prominently displayed in any written contract, or displayed in writing if there is no written contract

The regulations will apply to sales of goods and services through door-to-door methods - often referred to as doorstep selling. This includes - but is not limited to - businesses providing goods and services such as:

    * home improvement
    * repair and maintenance services
    * energy efficiency products or installations
    * consumer goods and home ware

The regulations will affect a very wide range of businesses and you are advised to check whether yours is likely to be one of them. If it is, you must be ready to apply the new regulations when they come into force on 1 October 2008. You and your staff must read the guidance and understand the new requirements, which may include making changes to your sales contracts.

I guess  this depends on how you run your cancellations for your business. But i doubt it would make much difference to us. How do you see it?

www.businesslink.gov.uk

[wightsurf]

I think this is aimed at plumbers

[Paul Coleman]

Extending consumer cancellation rights to "doorstep" contracts made with traders during solicited visits

Relevant to
All traders who enter into a contract with a consumer in the consumer's home or workplace or another individual's home, or on an excursion organised by the trader away from the trader's business premises in the UK subject to some exceptions

Takes effect on
1 October 2008

From 1 October 2008, new regulations will extend the existing law on cooling-off periods and cancellation rights for consumers. They will cover contracts made during both solicited visits made by traders - ie visits made at the consumer's request - and unsolicited visits by traders. The visits could take place in a consumer's home or workplace, or another individual's home, or on an excursion organised by the trader away from the trader's business premises in the UK. Certain exceptions may however apply.

Under the new regulations, traders will be required to provide the consumer with all of the following terms and conditions:

    * a minimum cooling-off period of seven calendar days starting with the date of receipt by the consumer of a notice of the right to cancel from the trader
    * the right within the cooling-off period to cancel a contract with a total payment value of more than £35
    * cancellation rights clearly and prominently displayed in any written contract, or displayed in writing if there is no written contract

The regulations will apply to sales of goods and services through door-to-door methods - often referred to as doorstep selling. This includes - but is not limited to - businesses providing goods and services such as:

    * home improvement
    * repair and maintenance services
    * energy efficiency products or installations
    * consumer goods and home ware

The regulations will affect a very wide range of businesses and you are advised to check whether yours is likely to be one of them. If it is, you must be ready to apply the new regulations when they come into force on 1 October 2008. You and your staff must read the guidance and understand the new requirements, which may include making changes to your sales contracts.

I guess  this depends on how you run your cancellations for your business. But i doubt it would make much difference to us. How do you see it?

www.businesslink.gov.uk

Don't know if I'm interpreting this correctly but it looks like it would only apply to jobs over £35.  If so, this would not apply to most domestic window cleaning.

[simon knight]

I'm with you Chris, it doesn't effect bog-standard residential w/c one iota.

None, but none of my customers has any form of contract and if they want to cancel that's fine by me....and even if I had "contracts"  I just can't see myself taking 70 yr old Mrs Smith to court if she breached it.

It might be relevant with commercial where one has to buy new equipment and perhaps chop other jobs to fulfill the new work...but for res work?...Nah!

[baldeagle]

1/  I presume that these new regulations will apply to only those "contracts" made on or after 1 October?

2/  Would I be correct to interprete "or displayed in writing if there is no written contract", as meaning that as long as I have something that say's just that, and displayed in my van, that I will be in compliance?

Baldeagle

[Rob.Hall]

We offer a cleaning service.

Not maintenance.
Not home improvements.
Not energy efficiency plans/programmes.
Not consumer goods or home ware.

Maintenance might be the only gray area. However we clean windows not maintain/repair them.

[Chris Galloway]

We offer a cleaning service.

Not maintenance.
Not home improvements.
Not energy efficiency plans/programmes.
Not consumer goods or home ware.

Maintenance might be the only gray area. However we clean windows not maintain/repair them.

This includes - but is not limited to - businesses providing goods and services such as:

    * home improvement
    * repair and maintenance services
    * energy efficiency products or installations
    * consumer goods and home ware

[simon knight]

I'm with you Chris, it doesn't effect bog-standard residential w/c one iota.

None, but none of my customers has any form of contract and if they want to cancel that's fine by me....and even if I had "contracts"  I just can't see myself taking 70 yr old Mrs Smith to court if she breached it.

It might be relevant with commercial where one has to buy new equipment and perhaps chop other jobs to fulfill the new work...but for res work?...Nah!

You do have a contract with everyone of your customers, it doesn’t have to be in writing or verbally, just by turning up and cleaning there windows regularly means you have a contract.

How do you work that out?

[Chris Galloway]

I'm with you Chris, it doesn't effect bog-standard residential w/c one iota.

None, but none of my customers has any form of contract and if they want to cancel that's fine by me....and even if I had "contracts"  I just can't see myself taking 70 yr old Mrs Smith to court if she breached it.

It might be relevant with commercial where one has to buy new equipment and perhaps chop other jobs to fulfill the new work...but for res work?...Nah!

You do have a contract with everyone of your customers, it doesn’t have to be in writing or verbally, just by turning up and cleaning there windows regularly means you have a contract.

How do you work that out?

Its would still be verbally. You say its £15 a month, they agree there you have a contract (verbal), and turn up every month and charge £15, as agreed.

[simon knight]

I'm with you Chris, it doesn't effect bog-standard residential w/c one iota.

None, but none of my customers has any form of contract and if they want to cancel that's fine by me....and even if I had "contracts"  I just can't see myself taking 70 yr old Mrs Smith to court if she breached it.

It might be relevant with commercial where one has to buy new equipment and perhaps chop other jobs to fulfill the new work...but for res work?...Nah!

You do have a contract with everyone of your customers, it doesn’t have to be in writing or verbally, just by turning up and cleaning there windows regularly means you have a contract.

How do you work that out?

Its would still be verbally. You say its £15 a month, they agree there you have a contract (verbal), and turn up every month and charge £15, as agreed.

Verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on! Besides, what about notice period?  If Mrs Smith doesn't want me to come any more she'll just phone up and tell me...likewise if I don't want to do Mrs Smith any more I'll phone her up and tell her. She doesn't give me any notice and I don't give her any.

I do not feel contracted to any of my customers and they don't to me.

I'll clean a persons windows for as long as it suits me and they let me clean their windows for as long as it suits them.

I don't have T&Cs

As I said I imagine if you're doing commercial work then perhaps contracts and T&Cs would be necessary....but for residential?...oh please!

[Mark Sadler]

AAAhhhh HHEEEEEE your all a bunch of unethical bigots, look it up in the dictionary for those under achieved school leavers. Fancy worrying about terms and conditions, you all want to think your self lucky with the global crisis at hand, window cleaning being such a low ticket service item, us customers truly do feel sorry for you and If i want to sack you i will, and you all earn to much money anyway for just cleaning windows.
If i can join this talk group so can the IRS. I cannot believe, : why you brag and shine your selves up on here about how good you are and how much you earn and also list your websites on here.  Like i give a damn about your technological brushes, all i want is my windows to sparkle. You window cleaners seem to have rather large ego about how big your sticks with brushes are.

[simon knight]

AAAhhhh HHEEEEEE your all a bunch of unethical bigots, look it up in the dictionary for those under achieved school leavers. Fancy worrying about terms and conditions, you all want to think your self lucky with the global crisis at hand, window cleaning being such a low ticket service item, us customers truly do feel sorry for you and If i want to sack you i will, and you all earn to much money anyway for just cleaning windows.
If i can join this talk group so can the IRS. I cannot believe, : why you brag and shine your selves up on here about how good you are and how much you earn and also list your websites on here.  Like i give a damn about your technological brushes, all i want is my windows to sparkle. You window cleaners seem to have rather large ego about how big your sticks with brushes are.

I hope your post is done in complete jest, otherwise you are very sad.

Ewan, look at the time he wrote his post...12.57am...Friday night!!!....he was well bevvied up

[Paul Coleman]

AAAhhhh HHEEEEEE your all a bunch of unethical bigots, look it up in the dictionary for those under achieved school leavers. Fancy worrying about terms and conditions, you all want to think your self lucky with the global crisis at hand, window cleaning being such a low ticket service item, us customers truly do feel sorry for you and If i want to sack you i will, and you all earn to much money anyway for just cleaning windows.
If i can join this talk group so can the IRS. I cannot believe, : why you brag and shine your selves up on here about how good you are and how much you earn and also list your websites on here.  Like i give a damn about your technological brushes, all i want is my windows to sparkle. You window cleaners seem to have rather large ego about how big your sticks with brushes are.

Hey Redneck.  Wanna quote?

[simon knight]

AAAhhhh HHEEEEEE your all a bunch of unethical bigots, look it up in the dictionary for those under achieved school leavers. Fancy worrying about terms and conditions, you all want to think your self lucky with the global crisis at hand, window cleaning being such a low ticket service item, us customers truly do feel sorry for you and If i want to sack you i will, and you all earn to much money anyway for just cleaning windows.
If i can join this talk group so can the IRS. I cannot believe, : why you brag and shine your selves up on here about how good you are and how much you earn and also list your websites on here.  Like i give a damn about your technological brushes, all i want is my windows to sparkle. You window cleaners seem to have rather large ego about how big your sticks with brushes are.

Hey Redneck.  Wanna quote?

No point in sending him posts at the moment...he'll be in bed sleeping off last nights bourbon until midday :

[simon knight]

AAAhhhh HHEEEEEE your all a bunch of unethical bigots, look it up in the dictionary for those under achieved school leavers. Fancy worrying about terms and conditions, you all want to think your self lucky with the global crisis at hand, window cleaning being such a low ticket service item, us customers truly do feel sorry for you and If i want to sack you i will, and you all earn to much money anyway for just cleaning windows.
If i can join this talk group so can the IRS. I cannot believe, : why you brag and shine your selves up on here about how good you are and how much you earn and also list your websites on here.  Like i give a damn about your technological brushes, all i want is my windows to sparkle. You window cleaners seem to have rather large ego about how big your sticks with brushes are.

Hey Redneck.  Wanna quote?

No point in sending him posts at the moment...he'll be in bed sleeping off last nights bourbon until midday :

I'm back home now...this unethical bigot has done a nice mornings work in the sun...chit-chatted with my custies (cos on a Saturday morning I'm in no rush) and earnt...well, best not to say with the IRS reading :

In many respects Mark Sadler I understand and agree with a lot of your comments...I too agree that there are people who post on here that have inflated egos relative to what they do (I mean cleaning glass isn't exactly rocket science that requires a university degree!) and certainly I believe that boasting ones earning is also a matter to be kept between oneself, God and the Inland Revenue.

But that said, this is a window cleaners forum and whilst I agree that there are some who seem to struggle to write their native tongue grammatically I feel obliged to point out various errors in your post:

Line 1: "AAAhhhh HHEEEEE"  Sorry what the f#ck is this?...Not English for sure.
             "under achieved" has a hyphen...thus "under-achieved"

Line 2:  NOT "your self"...it's one word...yourself!

Line 4: "earn to much money..."  No: the word is too (extra o) in that context.

Line 5:  Again: "your selves"...it's one word....yourselves!

Hope the hangover's not too bad

[Chris Galloway]

Uni degree.. hehe i have one in Motorsport Engineering, i also have a HND in Automotive Engineering and lesser Engineering qualifications.

Why am i window cleaning? because i enjoy it! Why am i not using my degree? Because i cant get a job in the automotive sector, and everyone wants "experience" - how they hell do i get that then if i cant get a job!?!?

So unless i want to work as a tele sales operative or insurance claims advisor ( no offy to anyone that does, but id rather kill myself!) Im quite happy to clean windows, gutters and the like.

No, not all window cleaners make £500 a day (wish i did thou) its those lucky ones that work for posh people that have no sense of money that do.

Some of us are actually quite happy earning what we do, working outside in ALL weathers, with numb fingers and toes, including at the weekends, than work in an office or factory working 9-5 being spoken to like a piece of crap by some jumped up manager who think he owns us.

Fair enough cleaning glass isn't rocket science but it is Water Science. If i was to tell my custies about the science that goes behind making water pure, regarding ro and di, id cause them to fall asleep, as all they want is there windows to sparkle, so rather than bore them - i make their windows sparkle. 

[Chris Galloway]

AAAhhhh HHEEEEEE your all a bunch of unethical bigots, look it up in the dictionary for those under achieved school leavers. Fancy worrying about terms and conditions, you all want to think your self lucky with the global crisis at hand, window cleaning being such a low ticket service item, us customers truly do feel sorry for you and If i want to sack you i will, and you all earn to much money anyway for just cleaning windows.
If i can join this talk group so can the IRS. I cannot believe, : why you brag and shine your selves up on here about how good you are and how much you earn and also list your websites on here.  Like i give a damn about your technological brushes, all i want is my windows to sparkle. You window cleaners seem to have rather large ego about how big your sticks with brushes are.

I hope your post is done in complete jest, otherwise you are very sad.

No he just very mark SADler 

[simon knight]

AAAhhhh HHEEEEEE your all a bunch of unethical bigots, look it up in the dictionary for those under achieved school leavers. Fancy worrying about terms and conditions, you all want to think your self lucky with the global crisis at hand, window cleaning being such a low ticket service item, us customers truly do feel sorry for you and If i want to sack you i will, and you all earn to much money anyway for just cleaning windows.
If i can join this talk group so can the IRS. I cannot believe, : why you brag and shine your selves up on here about how good you are and how much you earn and also list your websites on here.  Like i give a damn about your technological brushes, all i want is my windows to sparkle. You window cleaners seem to have rather large ego about how big your sticks with brushes are.

I hope your post is done in complete jest, otherwise you are very sad.

No he just very mark SADler 

No c'mon Chris the guy is entitled to his view...possibly he need not have been quite so vitriolic...but as I said earlier @ 12.57am there was probably a bottle of bourbon involved :

[Chris Galloway]

scathing or not, i too think its very sad to sign up to a cleaners forum at

Date Registered:     October 09, 2008, 02:54:57 PM

post in the window cleaners section at the time he did, with the post there was for the first post.

Entitled to his opinion, yes... but its still sad. Personally if i wasn't a cleaner of some sorts and had no interest in the profession i would have rather spent my Friday night doing something more worthwhile with my life alcohol or not, but maybe that's just me?

[simon knight]

Window cleaning may not require a degree, but there are plenty for operating a business!

As for boasting about earnings, being simple about running a window cleaning business is worse. Cleaning the windows is just the service, which I’m sure everyone here is capable of doing, but not all are able to run a successful business. That’s why they dumb it down, for there ego’s.

I clean glass...short and sweet,  and university degree not required! I make money...not great but suffiecient to pay my mortgage, gas, electric, council tax, food and on and on and on and on... :

Ego's?...Ego's don't pay bills...I'll leave ego's to other people thanks.