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Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2008, 08:08:13 pm »
Yes Jeff the jack plug thanks for helping out - was getting in a pickle for a while. I don't know how it's going to stand up, seems to view the gutters allright even at night. Hard bit is directing the pole at the moment. Lots to learn.
get some Self Amalgamating Tape and tape up the plugs to make them waterproof.

Rest your pole base on your hip for support and rest the top of the pole on the guttering edge for more support, gently slide it along to view steady images.
Jeff what price did you cam cost ?

Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2008, 08:12:46 pm »
Its not wireless - which means no interference no matter where your working - It works in low and bright light, is waterproof and the images can be recorded there and then and played back. All powered by rechargeable batteries that last all day! wow and so so much more.
  

£800 Plus VAT - but for a complete solution in a hard waring and totally reliable package that will work in all conditions its simply the business.

I did the DIY camera thing, and for commercial work day in day out it just wouldn't cut it. They are great for simple fair weather jobs but as soon as you put a DIY camera into a dark box gutter on an overcast day its as good as useless. Also the Omnicam is narrow and can be introduced into downpipes, drains etc  and it still provides reliable images.

Save you money and buy the best tool for the job.  


Kev, for give me if I am wrong but £800 for a little cam is way over priced, can I ask what you get with the cam please, the reason I ask you could get a high quality dvd camcorder for less than half that price and would give spot free pics, do you get all the pole etc with the cam, sorry but am findoing it hard to see how a cam can cost £800 in this day and age.

Ian

Its not just the camera you get. Its for the package (not the pole) but everything else. Also its a high quality small surveying camera (mines made by Sony) it fits in small spaces which the DIY ones dont and it is very high resolution. The image quality on the DIY ones is poor in comparison. In poor light the images are dark and blocky. They are designed to pick up movement and not detail which is important.

You also get a stand alone digital recorder / player and all the leads you need to connect it to what ever you want. Mine is 20G it holds hours of footage. Which is important on larger sites.

The camera and the recorder have rechargeable batteries, so you don't need spares and its really portable.

The price simply reflects its quality - surveying cameras cost money. Cameras for looking who's at your front door are not really designed for poking into downpipes etc.

Like I have said a million times before its horses for courses but if you turned up on some jobs with a DIY camera on a pole they would be having a laugh in the office as your quote went in the bin  ;)




ftp

  • Posts: 4694
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2008, 08:23:47 pm »
I have to admit it looks nearly as bad as a brush on a stick and nobody would accept that i'm sure.  ;D

Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2008, 08:32:42 pm »
Its not wireless - which means no interference no matter where your working - It works in low and bright light, is waterproof and the images can be recorded there and then and played back. All powered by rechargeable batteries that last all day! wow and so so much more.
  

£800 Plus VAT - but for a complete solution in a hard waring and totally reliable package that will work in all conditions its simply the business.

I did the DIY camera thing, and for commercial work day in day out it just wouldn't cut it. They are great for simple fair weather jobs but as soon as you put a DIY camera into a dark box gutter on an overcast day its as good as useless. Also the Omnicam is narrow and can be introduced into downpipes, drains etc  and it still provides reliable images.

Save you money and buy the best tool for the job.  


Kev, for give me if I am wrong but £800 for a little cam is way over priced, can I ask what you get with the cam please, the reason I ask you could get a high quality dvd camcorder for less than half that price and would give spot free pics, do you get all the pole etc with the cam, sorry but am findoing it hard to see how a cam can cost £800 in this day and age.

Ian

Its not just the camera you get. Its for the package (not the pole) but everything else. Also its a high quality small surveying camera (mines made by Sony) it fits in small spaces which the DIY ones dont and it is very high resolution. The image quality on the DIY ones is poor in comparison. In poor light the images are dark and blocky. They are designed to pick up movement and not detail which is important.

You also get a stand alone digital recorder / player and all the leads you need to connect it to what ever you want. Mine is 20G it holds hours of footage. Which is important on larger sites.

The camera and the recorder have rechargeable batteries, so you don't need spares and its really portable.

The price simply reflects its quality - surveying cameras cost money. Cameras for looking who's at your front door are not really designed for poking into downpipes etc.

Like I have said a million times before its horses for courses but if you turned up on some jobs with a DIY camera on a pole they would be having a laugh in the office as your quote went in the bin  ;)




I am glad it is not just the camera as that is what I was thinking. do you have any pics of your cam Kev ?

I also agree if diy and looks it would make you look a right wally and very unprofessional something I would not do

ftp

  • Posts: 4694
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2008, 08:42:41 pm »
Don't forget to buy the Omnivac to go with the camera Ian, or you will look unprofessional.  ;)

Whilst i'm in a teasing mood - you wouldn't use a cheap decorators pole ......... would you?

Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2008, 08:48:44 pm »
Don't forget to buy the Omnivac to go with the camera Ian, or you will look unprofessional.  ;)

Whilst i'm in a teasing mood - you wouldn't use a cheap decorators pole ......... would you?
I dont use a cheap decorators pole m8 no  :P, I made it to help others. and that pole looks just like most more so if you shrink tube it.

Omnivac is a product from ominipole it is just a 3x motor vac that anyone can buy, from what I see and hear it is there tools that are the seller and the adaptions they make, pricey maybe but some things are, I dont like paying over the top for things when there is no need, but at the same time I would rather pay out more money and not look a tit if you know what I mean.

jeff1

  • Posts: 5855
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2008, 08:50:02 pm »
Yes Jeff the jack plug thanks for helping out - was getting in a pickle for a while. I don't know how it's going to stand up, seems to view the gutters allright even at night. Hard bit is directing the pole at the moment. Lots to learn.
get some Self Amalgamating Tape and tape up the plugs to make them waterproof.

Rest your pole base on your hip for support and rest the top of the pole on the guttering edge for more support, gently slide it along to view steady images.
Jeff what price did you cam cost ?
£99 camera
£70 monitor
£65 dvd recorder from flebay

Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2008, 09:19:53 pm »
I have to admit it looks nearly as bad as a brush on a stick and nobody would accept that i'm sure.  ;D

Like I said Im not knocking you - I started like you, and you have to start some where for sure.

Good luck - enjoy it and always look to improving your techniques and equipment as this will increase efficiency and make you more money and gain you a reputation for being serious about your chosen profession.

And like you just said when wfp first started everybody doubted it but now its becoming the accepted way of doing things just as gutter vacs and cameras will in time.

Whats next is what I wanna know LOL

This is a picture of my system (its from Omnipoles site not my actual system) I have removed my system from the case and now I use a waterproof camera shoulder bag which makes life a bit easier than the flight case arrangement.



Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2008, 09:26:11 pm »
I would rather pay out more money and not look a tit if you know what I mean.

Sometimes appearances are important and can make the difference between getting the job or not  ;D

jeff1

  • Posts: 5855
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2008, 09:28:26 pm »
I have to admit it looks nearly as bad as a brush on a stick and nobody would accept that i'm sure.  ;D

Like I said Im not knocking you - I started like you, and you have to start some where for sure.

Good luck - enjoy it and always look to improving your techniques and equipment as this will increase efficiency and make you more money and gain you a reputation for being serious about your chosen profession.

And like you just said when wfp first started everybody doubted it but now its becoming the accepted way of doing things just as gutter vacs and cameras will in time.

Whats next is what I wanna know LOL

This is a picture of my system (its from Omnipoles site not my actual system) I have removed my system from the case and now I use a waterproof camera shoulder bag which makes life a bit easier than the flight case arrangement.



Kev what is the resalution of the camera?

jeff1

  • Posts: 5855
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2008, 09:42:40 pm »
Just checked on omnipoles site and its Resolution is only 380 lines

If you check this one out its 480 lines and goes down to 0.05 lux now that's nearer total darkness than 0.3 of the omnipole one and check out the price of it, I could probably find a cheaper one but this was one of the first high Resolution one I came across and its a colour sony.

www.supercircuits.com/Security-Cameras/Specialty-Cameras/PC165C

Just trying to show you the omnipole is not the bee's knees you think it is for the price.


Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2008, 10:01:22 pm »
I would rather pay out more money and not look a tit if you know what I mean.

Sometimes appearances are important and can make the difference between getting the job or not  ;D
I agree 100%

Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2008, 11:01:15 pm »
Just checked on omnipoles site and its Resolution is only 380 lines

If you check this one out its 480 lines and goes down to 0.05 lux now that's nearer total darkness than 0.3 of the omnipole one and check out the price of it, I could probably find a cheaper one but this was one of the first high Resolution one I came across and its a colour sony.

www.supercircuits.com/Security-Cameras/Specialty-Cameras/PC165C

Just trying to show you the omnipole is not the bee's knees you think it is for the price.



Is it waterproof? no

I have had my camera for almost 2 years - technology does move on.

My first digital SLR cost well over 2K now you can get one for £300

But the point is - Its not all about price - Some people will never understand this as they are too short sighted. I run a business - I dont play at cleaning gutters and go home when I've done my £50. I earn good money on commercial sites. I would not go with a toy and look a idiot. How can you risk assess a camera thats designed for home security? Also if its not designed for purpose and it falls off and hurts someone your simply not covered.

What I'm saying again is its horses for courses - If you happy clearing domestic gutters as a sole trader with no employees then fine do what you like - but if you doing commercial work with employees you cant build toys and hope for the best.

If you want to get somewhere in business you have to speculate to accumulate. You wouldn't like your kids getting in an unsafe vehicle when you called a taxi would you? well this is the same thing - You wouldn't like some one cleaning your mums gutters with toys and substandard equipment or would you?

Glyn H

Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2008, 12:05:03 am »
The 380 lines quoted on our site are TV lines
The scanning lines are 525 2:1 interlaced
The camera also operates down to - 10 or + 50C so its an all weather camera
its waterproof.
Our monitor has a built in 30GB real time video recorder.

We have supplied certain Police and other organisatios special op's departments with exactly the same system.

 I have no need to justify the systems cost as I have traveled outside the UK  to look at military and police spec units and our beats the vast majority hands down and is equal to the others.
 We are charging far less than the cost that these other "specialist" suppliers are getting  for in most cases an inferior unit many charge £3000- £5000 for their camera and monitor. One recent purchaser bought an extra camera system because in his opinion our units were cheap having previously paid over £5000.00 for a simular unit ( he wasnt a window cleaner ;o) )
I can put together a cheaper unit no problem, but I have always wanted to produce the best not the cheapest.

Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2008, 03:34:42 am »
Well said Glyn.

 Im glad you know the technical stuff, because when I asked for a good quality camera that I could put inside gutters and down pipes, one that wouldn't let me down in low light or suffer from interference, one I could work with in all weathers that was reliable you supplied it. Its a bomb proof system that works every time - Worth every penny in my humble opinion.

jeff1

  • Posts: 5855
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2008, 11:55:58 am »
The 380 lines quoted on our site are TV lines
The scanning lines are 525 2:1 interlaced
The camera also operates down to - 10 or + 50C so its an all weather camera
its waterproof.
Our monitor has a built in 30GB real time video recorder.

We have supplied certain Police and other organisatios special op's departments with exactly the same system.

 I have no need to justify the systems cost as I have traveled outside the UK  to look at military and police spec units and our beats the vast majority hands down and is equal to the others.
 We are charging far less than the cost that these other "specialist" suppliers are getting  for in most cases an inferior unit many charge £3000- £5000 for their camera and monitor. One recent purchaser bought an extra camera system because in his opinion our units were cheap having previously paid over £5000.00 for a simular unit ( he wasnt a window cleaner ;o) )
I can put together a cheaper unit no problem, but I have always wanted to produce the best not the cheapest.
Quote From your own web-site.
STANDARD COLOUR CAMERA UNIT :-

1.           1/3” Sharp Super sensitive CCD

2.           Illumination 0.3Lux@F2

3.          Resolution 380

4.           White balance Automatic

5.           Shutter speeds1/50-1/100,00 sec

6.           Lens 4.3mm

7.           Lens options 3.6mm 6mm 8mm 12mm 16mm

8.           Operation current 80mA 12V DC

9.           Size 21mm x 72mm

10.        Weight 180 gms

11.        PAL Scanning system

Who asked you to Justify the system costs? NOT ME! Who said your system wasn't good? NOT ME!
Who said a better quality components to produce a good system can source' d at less cost? ME!

I did CCTV systems for 15 years so there's not a lot you can teach me about them, I have  city & Guilds in electronics, so if you want to start throwing specs around, then a closed couple device (CCD) scans lines at a certain resolution and your web site clearly states in the camera specs 380 lines, if your saying that the cctv scans at 525 lines, and your monitor at 380 lines then its clear to me that you have a mis-match pair?

It means the quality of the picture on the monitor will be no better than 380 lines it can't show 525 lines produced by a camera.

A closed circuit control device for controlling carrier speed of a scanner. An optical meter is attached to the transparent glass panel of a scanner such that an image of the optical meter is formed on an optical sensor such as a charge couple device or a contact image sensor. Image of the optical meter is converted into sense signals by the optical sensor so that speed of the carrier can be accurately computed. Through the acquisition of an accurate carrier speed, scanning speed and direction can be precisely controlled.

The correct specifications for a 1/3rd sharp CCD camera are as follows
1/3 SHARP CCD Camera
Resolution =420TVL
LED= 10pcs
Minimum Illumination=0.01 Lux / F1.2
With a Lens = 3.6 mm standard

I'm not asking you to justify price's or specs and I'm not saying your products are inferior,  I never have, and never will, I know you have wages to pay and do lots of testing at the factory to produce better products, so you have to reflect this in your price's.
 
We had this disagreement some time back regarding your gutter vac and you chucked your toy's out of the pram then, and I will keep disagreeing with you that better quality components can be source' d at a lower cost, I know about all your overheads etc but as so many posts have been made on here regarding the cost of your product, its time you took notice.

I'm not suggesting you bring your prices down but what I am suggesting is that you make a product, so there within the reach of the one man bands and smaller companies.
 
You and your team have the knowledge, capability's and skills to produce good cheaper products for the lower end of the market and it will show you listen to us and not just come on here to sell and defend yourself?
I for one would sing your praises if you Just sit up and listen.

Its not in my nature to continue a disagreement, so I have had my last say on this matter.


ftp

  • Posts: 4694
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2008, 05:09:46 pm »
Well, the vacuum arrived this morning (blimey it's big!). The towbar electrics man is coming tomorrow, my monitor will be attatched to a heavy duty video camera tripod tonight. I have ordered some much longer hose to reduce all the extra moves of the unit whilst working. I have allready spotted grass hanging out of the gutters of one of my commercial jobs. So a new haircut and polish my boots and i should be ready for business within a couple of weeks.

Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2008, 05:15:41 pm »
Don't forget to take a hard hat and safety glasses for the commercial job. It will keep the muck off your nicely trimmed haircut and you will still be able to see you beautifully shiny boots at the end too.

A little tip for gutter vac hard hats is to get one with a chin strap as the standard ones fall off all the time else.  ;) 

ftp

  • Posts: 4694
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2008, 05:55:47 pm »
Hard hat's? Saw some in lidels two quid i think. Anyway heres tonights efforts looking into my downpipe. Might be the wrong way up - dammed technology.

ftp

  • Posts: 4694
Re: DIY cctv problems
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2008, 05:57:20 pm »
Any bright sparks feel free to turn it round.  ::)