[roo]

i have been cleaning windows for 6 years.i recentlt bought a wfp system.i have too say its bloody hard work sometimes!started 3 months ago and still find it is not good as i the 3.5 grand i thought it would be worth.yeah i know its alot safer but ive lost about 110 pounds already in customers.i have gained some but i still feel that things need to improve.i have mainly domestic and small houses.used to be on 25-30 ph.now im lucky if i pull in 25.w h a t am i doin wrong?some windows come up blindin,some come up with dried marks.unfortunately u cannot tell with wfp just how clean the windows are.then u get a complaint.is it much better with big properties/houses?what is your average ph?i am goin to persevere with it but need some honest answers.

[Roy Harding]

I have not had that problem at all, after cleaning for 20yrs went over to wfp last march. Never lost any customers had one person complain about the amount of water, and request it to be done the old way. But I do use a fair amount of water 400ltr to 500ltr a day to give a good rince. I atart at 9.00am and finish at about 2.30pm and do between £175 to £250 in that time. The old way start an 9 to 3.30 £125 - £140. So how much water are you using and do you store your pure water. As it will draw in impurites from the air.

[Ian_Giles]

I am more or less the same as Roy (except I don't earn as much )
I haven't had much in the way of problems, and I have found the amount of work I can get done in a day has increased by approx 25% overall.
You are obviously doing something wrong, both in the way you are using your WFP, and in the way you are selling it to your customers.

How much water are you using on each account?

Do you clean out the brush head regularly?

Is your brush a single or split type filament?

Is your brush jetted, or do you just have a couple of holes for the water to come out of?

What method do you use to clean a window?

What method do you use to unload and set up your WFP when you pull up to an account?

If you paid over £3,000 then I presume you do not have a trolley system, but is yours a van mount or trailer system?

It sounds like you would greatly benifit from one of the courses that are on offer, I think they are run by Craig Mowlam from Ionics (if I have that bit wrong, and without checking out other postings I'm not sure others will correct me)

On some jobs you will be no quicker than using traditional methods, but they are generally tiny jobs, on most work you should be considerably quicker, the bigger the individual job, the quicker you will be.

Ian

[John Walker]

I have been using WFP for around 6 months now.  No complaints so far.  I do pay special attention to the rinsing and in particular the top of each frame first.

My water is delivered at 1 litre per minute using two fan jets which give a wide coverage.  My brush originally had two straight jets fitted and I didn't find them as good so purchased fan jets from Cleantech.

Hope this helps.

[AuRavelling79]

Roy Harding said about storing wfp water draws impurities from the air - what's that all about? Are you talking days or 24 hours or what exactly?

[Roy Harding]

Pure water will want to return to its natural state impure. When I built my system the tec man from stream told me that if you fillterd pure water into a tank and the tds reading was 0.0, and if it was left there over week end or so it would have a reading of 20-22. And anything with a reading over 10 tds can cause spoting.

So I fillter my water as he sugested to 98% pure water into the tank, and then as I use the water it comes through the DI bottle at the last minute and  onto the window.

[easycleanwindows]

3 grand wow.Mine cost me 10 grand and ive made every penny back...well nearlly.A customer of mine who used to have 23 business yes 23 told me that he became as rich as he is mostly by luck.When i started to use wfp i was seen cleaning a bowling alley 30 feet up.A car came to a standstill and asked if i wanted to clean some flats.Of course i said no problem.i cleaned this block of flats in 4 hours and was paid £360.00.I asked him  if i done a good job"excellent he said and now i clean 31 blocks over three months from £70.00 to £400.00.......luck or what and how did i come by all of these flats?because he saw me using a wfp..

[AuRavelling79]

I'm like you roo - two weeks in to my new pole - is it all worth the effort - the explaining to customers - going up to the glass and peering at it to see if its drying OK bottling out and blading the patio doors - why won't the remote switch off consistently - what leisure battery to buy and how to rig it up - how to set up a length of hose to work straight out the car - how can I carry more water cuz these first cleans I'm using loads to make sure I rinse thoroughly. Not storing my water too long before I use it - or should I just run it through a DI bottle last of all. Questions questions questions!

But its slowly coming together - I'm working out that some of my smaller flat fronted houses with only four upstairs windows are not worth bothering to get the trolley out for and that if the house is a bit bigger or has a bay window or a window above a tiled porch or theres more than two together its worth using the pole.

And then the big detached ones - much quicker with a pole - esp. if georgian or leaded.

What I need to work on is how to get set up quickly, not get tangled up with hose and to speed up!

Bit like when I first start traditional w/c - where do you put the ladder, what size blade, how to detail etc. Keep persevering!

My next goal? Target my least profitable £200 of work and replace it with £400 of stuff suited to my methods of working. Look for lead! And the new stuff must take no longer than the old stuff did.!

Rambling again!

[Roy Harding]

Stay in there it will come. I allways start at the wiidow that is furthest away and work back. You dont get tangled up the same.

[AuRavelling79]

Hey Roy!

I just told my wife what you said about starting at the farthest point and working back - she said "Did you (me - Malc G) actually ask that on the forum?" I said "Yeah! Sort of...  they're all really helpful!"

She said "They must think you're a right Thick Mick asking a dumb question like that!"

Ho hum!

[Roy Harding]

Did you see my personal mesage malc?

[AuRavelling79]

Yes - I have now and replied!

[matt]

Pure water will want to return to its natural state impure. When I built my system the tec man from stream told me that if you fillterd pure water into a tank and the tds reading was 0.0, and if it was left there over week end or so it would have a reading of 20-22. And anything with a reading over 10 tds can cause spoting.

i find this hard to belive. as if the container is sealed shut (either barrels as i have, or a sealed tank) then where does the impurities come from ?? ?? ?? ??

any of the experts care to add to this

[Roy Harding]

I was told the water would even pull impurites form the air.

[Richie Mitchell]

Roo,
Firstly stick with it! Things will get better. I purchased my first wfp nearly four years ago, and to be honest I probably would of sounded like you (had there been a forum to post on).
As Ian Giles suggested, get in touch with Craig at Ionics & The BWCA. They run courses on wfps and marketing your business. Maybe with some professional training and advice your confidence will grow.
Trust me.......YOU WILL NOT LOOK BACK.
Richie Mitchell

[petski2]

I regularly produce my water thurs night at 0tds  and dont use it till monday and its still 0tds.I have never heard of it rising in tds when left.
In fact I have before now had it standing for 2 weeks and its still been zero.

[Jeff Brimble]

I have a barrel of RO water thats 2 years old, smells a bit musty couple of cobwebs and dust in the bottom but RO is still 0 tds I keep it for emergencies but the Domestic system copes with what I use.

[thewindowcleaner1]

Had my system for Three years now and it the best thing I've ever done. Good rinsing is the secret, at first I tried to save water by keeping the flow low, now I've increased the flow which means I do the job quicker and better,I am now confident enough to tell customers that the I will only use WFP for 1st /2nd floor and leaded windows. By being confident most customers except that you know what you're doing and are normally pleased that they are not getting tile broken or ladder marks on the walls - as a spring bonus to my customers I will cleen all thier Upvc doors as part of the price (a little good will goes a long way)
STICK AT IT, IT DOES WORK.... Recently stated useing the cheeper domestic pole (around £100) does a very good job and is a lot lighter than the commercial poles

[Staybright]

Which pole was that? the unger type ones? or the Residential glass fibre ones from Ionics?
Only reason I ask is I'm after a pole for the first floors and can't decide which to go for.

Thanks

Rob