[Steve CM]

This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.

The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.

What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.

So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?

I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?

If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.

200 x 5 days x 4 weekly = 4000 quid

take of his 2400
take of 12.5% for employers national insurance £300
employers insurance £50
van and setup lease 220
diesel a very reserved price at 200
van insurance say 30 - 50 a month
van tax say 15 a month
(not even counting repairs to system and wear and tear on van)
your costs will come in at a minumum of £3215 giving you a minimum profit of £785

i think you need to re work your sums NWH as i wouldn't even entertain a profit margin like that for 1 full van!!

where did you get your profit margin of 1600 - 1800??

it sounds like you've never employed before given them figures?

I have and in the end it didn`t work,i didn`t pay them enough.I was stating the minimum you`ll need to earn.

but where is the £1600 - £1800 you first talked about? it just doesn't add up! 

[NWH]

It was basically an example of what would be expected in the south,roughly speaking you would look to get back what your paying out in wages,in other areas it would vary considerably i know.

[ronnie paton]

nwh he works with me, if the time come were he worked on is own then i would prob pay around 18,000 but i would say the average wage was about 13000 and i know many who earn this and leave with reasonable comfort(within there means).

Your sums make it not worth employing!

[alanwilson]

Dave

That easily equates to £1000 per man per week not including holidays etc!!  you must be charging top whack.

Also 110k turnover - I have 3 other men to pay - 2 @ £18k = £36k + 1 @ £25k = £51K

Sorry I failed to mention turnover was +VAT, therefore the VAT figure is irrelevant here.

So the figure is actually £110k +VAT

[Steve CM]

It was basically an example of what would be expected in the south,roughly speaking you would look to get back what your paying out in wages,in other areas it would vary considerably i know.

i'm even more confused now! what is expected? roughly £800 on your part or £2400 on his part per month. if you would of stacked the earnings over £300 a day then it is getting closer to what is expected surely? even then its still not as healthy as it could be. in the south (i take it were talking london (ish) prices. i would say £300 per day would be bare minimum surely?

[Sir Squeaky]

For someone to fit this role i don`t think 20k a year + bonus is over the top,in the south you would have to pay this kind of money.

To pay someone that figure they'd have to be turning over £35K+ to make it worth it, and I don't think any employee is going to do that. More like £15K.
Hell, I can't get anywhere near that figure and I've been doing it 11 years.

[Clive McDonald]

We've all tried to help squeaks but as he thinks we talk rubbish it's a very hard sell.If he'd just relax his prejudices about always knowing better, and people like me inventing hugely inflated earnings, he might realise finally quite how much he misses out on opportunities.

Life's over in a blink, don't let it pass you by, at the very least earn a few bob.


I'm still interested in these employee costs to turnover ratios.These must be universal for any business and there must be info about this.From figures given a ratio of two would be good, but hard to achieve on only one employee.

[ftp]

This forum is brilliant! These posts make me laugh for ages. One guy comes on with a simple question asking if it's possible to earn £30. Then a few jokey answers turn up and then the figures start to climb (as always). NWH insists an employee should be making £1000 and above easily per week! Brilliant! To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans  i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!

[karygate]

after reading 6 pages on this subject there is only one thing not said   no matter how much you earn you still end up with no money at end of week

[Oakley Windows]

To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans  i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!

Yes yes yes!!!      soo funny.

Just left another thread of that irk,

A truly excellent review of a product with indepth knowledge and well argued reasoning. If those two teapots sanity and WCE had ever got their farcical magazine idea off the ground

Now doesnt that sentence just overflow with irony!!   

A truly excellent review of a a magazine, illustrating his indepth knowledge and argue  reasoning   

[seandyer2003]

It must be possible to get an employee to do £1000 a week, if you find someone who can do the job and is a hard worker, the right work, and the right wage - it would soon come.....Then it would be easy to pay them 20, 000 a year, about 430 a week based on a %of work done, alot of "good jobs" up here in North pay no more that, as ronnie said - average is 13-14000....i think anyone who is negative about it obviously hasnt earned it themselves because they dont work long enough hours etc, but it must be possible with a bit of hard work & the right person, and if it was someone you worked for you would have to do it, but theres only one way to put into practice and find out i suppose!

Bring on the idea bashers

[macmac]

This forum is brilliant! These posts make me laugh for ages. One guy comes on with a simple question asking if it's possible to earn £30. Then a few jokey answers turn up and then the figures start to climb (as always). NWH insists an employee should be making £1000 and above easily per week! Brilliant! To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans  i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!

Well said that man
 

Like i said a while ago dave, when you take a step back & look at some posts from a different angle this forum has to be the best FREE entertainment on the web!! Especially when you have a good memory like me & can see over-enthusiastic minds constantly contradict themselves! It's most entertaining when people don't realise they are being laughed at & NOT with!!
We could go on & name more, but hey, who wants to fall out, i'd much rather chuckle!

Light Entertainment Ltd

[gerard mcmanus]

if you take £15 per hour and work 9 hours a day for 6 days thats, £810. You could do that trad easy enough, if your jobs are priced properly and you get out hail rain or shine(ok maybe not hail), then do your round WFP and it should be possible yeah. But you will only have one day off a week and work long hours but yeah, if you are a hard worker out the hours in plan it carefully anything is possible.

gerard  

[seandyer2003]

if you take £15 per hour and work 9 hours a day for 6 days thats, £810. You could do that trad easy enough, if your jobs are priced properly and you get out hail rain or shine(ok maybe not hail), then do your round WFP and it should be possible yeah. But you will only have one day off a week and work long hours but yeah, if you are a hard worker out the hours in plan it carefully anything is possible.

gerard  

I dont wanna sound like the braggers on here but i always do more than 15 usually 20+ although i prob dont average much more than 22-23, but i also work as long as i can 8+ hours, so i feel 1000 is achievable, i dont have the work to do it all month but i have put both rounds in one week and done it + on my own many times, and that is trad too- still to change alot of work over as it have been putting it off so as to keep up with work in the bad weather..so when im trad surely i will be at least 25% better off and can do same amount in shorter days- i hope!

[Oakley Windows]

A grand a week trad? 

How  old are you sean?

[Nathanael Jones]

after reading 6 pages on this subject there is only one thing not said   no matter how much you earn you still end up with no money at end of week

Never a truer word spoken!!

[windowwashers]

This forum is brilliant! These posts make me laugh for ages. One guy comes on with a simple question asking if it's possible to earn £30. Then a few jokey answers turn up and then the figures start to climb (as always). NWH insists an employee should be making £1000 and above easily per week! Brilliant! To top it all there's Discount with his overcomplicated posts that no-one understands. Windowwashers will be here in a minute to give out his phone number (call me and we can talk about it} Not forgetting Ewans  i've just left uni with a business study degree. I love it. The best most honest/funny posts from Squeaky - keep it coming lads!

Please leave me out of this 

[Dave Turley]

wow! this has been a lively thread, it's amazing how weekends (and perhaps a few beers) changes this forum.

to all you employers, do you think that you're better off now bearing EVERYTHING in mind (increased hassle, expense, paperwork etc) than you would have been if you had just carried on on your own, refining your round.

i'm now in the lucky position where I have plenty of good priced work on my books. this means that I can quote more expensive for any new work as I don't NEED more work.

if I was employing, I would have to qoute cheaper as I would be worried about retaning enough work to keep my employee(s) busy.

I love going to work  and don't have any hassle at all to speak of.

I know my way isn't for everyone, but it suits me at the moment. who knows, I might employee if I need to in the future, but at the moment i'm enjoying refining my round so it's better each month.

i've discussed this with 3 older window cleaners near me who have employed over the years and they reckoned that if they had their time again they would probably stay on their own.

cheers from one happy stress-free window cleaner!   

[ronnie paton]

my life is easier now i employ but i dont earn much more at the moment, finding the right employee is the hardist.

[seandyer2003]

A grand a week trad? 

How  old are you sean?

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