[NWH]

sean i will give you a tip, your still young so take your time always make sure your prepeared b4 you take on the next level, if you jump into employing without having the cashflow it could be a bad move.

I my self am only young at29 iv been running my business 3 years and have always tried to employ before i was ready(without haveing the work to employ full time) so i invetsed in another window cleaning business which gave me enough to pay an employees wages.

i didnt earn much more but my life is so much easier and i know have time to go to quotes and to continue to expand, employing isnt always about making more money instantly but about making more money and working less in the future        !!!!

Good post Ronnie,it is very surprising how much more work you need when 2 of you are WFP.Don`t foget you need far far more than you would if 2 of you were trad there`s a massive difference to bear in mind when thinking about how much work you`ll need,you will easily soon earn enough to pay someones wages but in the beggining if you don`t get him out canvassing or do it yourself he will be sitting around twiddling his thumbs and you don`t want someone getting used to going home at 2.30,start as you mean to go on.

[Steve CM]

i didnt earn much more but my life is so much easier and i know have time to go to quotes and to continue to expand, employing isnt always about making more money instantly but about making more money and working less in the future        !!!!

...and being able to expand all the time rather than be limited to what one person can do!

sounds like you have your head screwed on Ronnie! your business thinking is some what like mine

[Clive McDonald]

This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.

The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.

What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.

So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?

I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?

[Steve CM]

Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.

So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?

I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?

ut oh...you will start some arguments now

[NWH]

This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.

The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.

What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.

So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?

I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?

If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.

[Clive McDonald]

So  1k times 46 divided by 52 is £884pw average.

1k times 4 less £1600(Your profit) is £2400 his wages and other business expenses.Assume that this figure give him top bonus earning of £550pw (allowing just £50pw to cover ex'es)

This employee (nwh's notional employee) is a top bloke and worth hanging onto.He would get to take the van home and proabably be even more productive if he  worked with a mate on less money.

So in this example taking what NWH said he earns £550 and turns £1000, the turnover to man ratio would be 1.8 times wages.

[NWH]

If you buy a new van at say £220-£250 a month for him to use + employers nat ins and all the other bits there is still money in it for you,my amount earned is an example i would expect that as a minimum from a competant WFPoler.

[Oakley Windows]

If he was that competent he wouldnt be working for someone else.


Not that this has anything to do with the orignal post.

[NWH]

There`s plenty of people out there Matt that don`t want all the hassel,they just want to turn up and do there job and go home.You can get them but you have to pay above what they`ll get elsewhere working for someone else,if there on £2400 a month + bonuses they will turn up if you pay them £300 a week they won`t.

[Oakley Windows]

I know what you're saying, and undoubtedly there are people like that out there, the trick is finding them, Id imagine they like rocking horse $h!t. They were when I was on the cards for a company and we needed new staff.

All I know is if I had the knack and drive to produce that kind of output then I wouldnt be doing it whilst lining someone elses pocket.

I think people that can do that kind of work probably dont stay on the cards for that long.

btw Nigel, what did you think of the new Gardiners dual trim?

Matt

[windowwashers]

There`s plenty of people out there Matt that don`t want all the hassel,they just want to turn up and do there job and go home.You can get them but you have to pay above what they`ll get elsewhere working for someone else,if there on £2400 a month + bonuses they will turn up if you pay them £300 a week they won`t.

Do you employ NWH

[NWH]

There`s plenty of people out there Matt that don`t want all the hassel,they just want to turn up and do there job and go home.You can get them but you have to pay above what they`ll get elsewhere working for someone else,if there on £2400 a month + bonuses they will turn up if you pay them £300 a week they won`t.

Do you employ NWH

I used to employ 1 for 8 tears and 2 for 3 years,i now have a cleaning side aswell which i employ 2 part time.I will look to employ again and could now if i wanted on my own work but at the moment i`m doing more than enough on my own and am in the middle of moving.

[NWH]

I also sub work aswell thank`s.

[Steve CM]

This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.

The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.

What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.

So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?

I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?

If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.

200 x 5 days x 4 weekly = 4000 quid

take of his 2400
take of 12.5% for employers national insurance £300
employers insurance £50
van and setup lease 220
diesel a very reserved price at 200
van insurance say 30 - 50 a month
van tax say 15 a month
(not even counting repairs to system and wear and tear on van)
your costs will come in at a minumum of £3215 giving you a minimum profit of £785

i think you need to re work your sums NWH as i wouldn't even entertain a profit margin like that for 1 full van!!

where did you get your profit margin of 1600 - 1800??

it sounds like you've never employed before given them figures?

[peter holley]

this thread is a load of nonsense......it is easily acheavable!!!! .... im off to bed......enjoy youre siilly banter

[trike]

yes it is,everyone knows it.

[NWH]

This has been very revealing with several good replies, which is surprising because the opening question was pants.

The qouted peice above is indeed food for thought, not for profit at first but to make life easier and pave the way for later.

What I really wanted to ask about though was something dave mentioned (can you believe some of the people who argued the profit and loss expenses?I can see why they've got now't.) Anyway the little gold nugget that Dave mentioned was turnover to man ratio.

So what are examples of, good, bad, and average turnover to man ratio's?

I understand there will be differences, but what ratios would be acceptable in what circumstances and why?

If you put 1 man out on his own if he`s an experienced WFpoler he should be doing 1k a week + easily,even taking weather into account etc you should expect that sort of return from him.This was what i was saying about the amount of work you`ll need even for 1 van,i would expect to make £1600-£1800 a month from him.

200 x 5 days x 4 weekly = 4000 quid

take of his 2400
take of 12.5% for employers national insurance £300
employers insurance £50
van and setup lease 220
diesel a very reserved price at 200
van insurance say 30 - 50 a month
van tax say 15 a month
(not even counting repairs to system and wear and tear on van)
your costs will come in at a minumum of £3215 giving you a minimum profit of £785

i think you need to re work your sums NWH as i wouldn't even entertain a profit margin like that for 1 full van!!

where did you get your profit margin of 1600 - 1800??

it sounds like you've never employed before given them figures?

I have and in the end it didn`t work,i didn`t pay them enough.I was stating the minimum you`ll need to earn.

[seandyer2003]

sean i will give you a tip, your still young so take your time always make sure your prepeared b4 you take on the next level, if you jump into employing without having the cashflow it could be a bad move.

I my self am only young at29 iv been running my business 3 years and have always tried to employ before i was ready(without haveing the work to employ full time) so i invetsed in another window cleaning business which gave me enough to pay an employees wages.

i didnt earn much more but my life is so much easier and i know have time to go to quotes and to continue to expand, employing isnt always about making more money instantly but about making more money and working less in the future        !!!!

Im not looking to start anyone till around august next year when i will have the work i want for myself, and the money to set up another van and wfp and buy enough for a part time employee, then build from there, and find someone hopefully who is willing to go full time, but i know it wont work out straight away and will have difficulties but you got to have goals and a plan, and they are mine for long term...for now im still building my own round as i still wanna work, id be bored otherwise, but i only wanna do an easy 3-4 days and a day or 2 quoting etc, wife will do books, and admin That is the plan anyway!

[ronnie paton]

i pay my lad 270 a week its not the best wage but he works abot 30 hours all though its based on 36 hour

not the best wage but more than most window cleaners round here, i will review this after he has lasted 3 months he thinks this is fair and so do i.

if you start paying some one 40 or 50 % you may as well be working on your own all though i supose if yu had 8 working for you it would be a different story.

[NWH]

i pay my lad 270 a week its not the best wage but he works abot 30 hours all though its based on 36 hour

not the best wage but more than most window cleaners round here, i will review this after he has lasted 3 months he thinks this is fair and so do i.

if you start paying some one 40 or 50 % you may as well be working on your own all though i supose if yu had 8 working for you it would be a different story.

In the south you simply could not live on that kind of money end of story,if you were to offer that kind of money down here you either not get any takers or you would get 20 year olds not turning up wasting your time.You have to pay someone enough to live at least if you want them longterm,i`m talking about someone being out on there own here and in effect running part of the business for you.For someone to fit this role i don`t think 20k a year + bonus is over the top,in the south you would have to pay this kind of money.